Author Topic: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 19678 times)

Offline knnn

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2018, 03:40:18 AM »
Nononono, Time travelling Rey is her own mother (maybe with Ben Solo as the father each time).    That explains the weird infinite mirror sequence that otherwise did absolutely nothing for the story.   

It also explains  her amazing power -- she's building up her "genetic midicholrians" in an infinite loop until she's powerful  enough to stop time itself.   Oh, and "bring balance to the universe" whatever that means.   

See, I can write plots to Star Wars movies too.    :P
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 03:41:51 AM by knnn »
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Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2018, 10:13:59 AM »
Ohh, I think my 5 year old son could write a Star Wars plot that equals the quality of TLJ. :P
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Offline knnn

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2018, 03:07:45 PM »
I've always thought this one was pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYNDssdsVnM

 ;)

(I could never be one of the extras in the background.  I'd be grinning ear to ear the whole time).
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Offline Cozarkian

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2018, 04:29:40 PM »
I actually had he same thought during he movie about Holding and Skywalker being Rey's parents and Luke not knowing.  I think Holdo would have returned for Rey by now if  Holdo knew Rey was on Jaku, which means Holdo must have hired someone to take Rey to safety and that person didn't return, so Holdo thinks her daughter is dead.

I hate the theory after what Holdo did, though. Either Holdo is dead and Rey didn't get a reunion, or Holdo isn't dead, which defies belief. I suspect the latter, because the new movies have had ridiculous power creep in the things that untrained novices accomplish (including both Leia and Rey) as well as the general power level of what is possible (Kylo is more powerful than Vader, Snoak than Palpatine, and dead Yoda can cause lightning strikes).

I wish it were true that Rey's parents were schoolbags and this is a maturation story that great people can ride above a disadvantaged past, but I think this will be a story of a certain bloodline (Skywalker) having special destinies.

Fear, hate and anger lead to the dark side. Rey's fear is that she isn't special and that her parents didn't love her. Kylo uses the classic dark side tactic of playing on that fear to try to convert it to hate and anger (see Vader using Luke's fear that his friends will die as lure in Empire and Palpatine the same in RotJ). Kylo told her what he thought would benefit him, not what he actually saw.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2018, 05:09:52 PM »
I think there is a statement that Kylo didn't lie but that doesn't mean that he knows the whole truth either.
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Offline raidem

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2018, 06:21:02 PM »
Yeah. I saw that statement too. I think the statement went further in suggesting the director 'thought' it to be true at the time and so I point out the following:

It should be noted too that there is a different director for the last jedi (Rian Johnson) than who directed/will direct (J. J. Abrams) both the force awakens and the last movie of the trilogy. 

On the topic of time travel in Star Wars, I did find that time travel does exist in Star Wars and not just because of time dilation.  Most of the 'regular' time travel is because of hyperdrive malfunctions, shielding malfunctions that protects against time dilation, travel too close to intense gravity wells, etc.
The real 'time travel' occurrences I see included Mace Windu going to a particular temple to return a particular artifact that was placed in Jedi safekeeping thousands of years ago.  This ancient civilization that had died out I think long ago had a prophecy and idolized this particular hero.  Well, Mace returned this artifact to a statue that weirdly enough had a uncanny resemblance to himself.  Once he placed the artifact upon the statues outstretched hands, Mace was transported thousand+ years ago onto an ancient battlefield where he helped turn the tide of battle. At some point, he returns to his present and when he informs the Jedi Council, he is told that the Jedi were awaiting the fulfillment of this prophecy and had believed it to be him and therefore had sent him to complete the loop.

I think there are other instances of 'real' time travel too but not much.

Well, I can believe Rey is her own Mother, but that is consistent if she is a Clone but that doesn't require Time Travel.  And, I could accept that Rey will have some power over time itself per darside Mirrors. I'd adapt that ability and say she could pass that ability down to her descendants.

So, I'll apply my Murphy/Marcone theory onto Rey/DJ.  In Dresden Files, Marcone descends from Mab/Murphy with time travel in the mix where Marcone finds himself around a time of Murphy's relative 'youth'.  DJ descends from Rey with time travel in the mix where DJ returns to a time around Rey's relative 'youth'. :)

As to bringing balance to the force, I've already pointed out the big bad in the expanded universe which is now legend and not canon but may be refashioned into it again.  The big bad is Abeloth, a 100k year old female/force entity that was corrupted when she did what was forbidden. She was imprisoned within a black hole cluster where safe navigation within the cluster was extremely difficult.  She had insanely intense ability to influence the force and those using it to cause those using it to suffer force psychosis, the desire or urge to go all homicidal.  So, she is or could be an indirect cause of Luke having temporary homicidal ideation with respect to Ben, Anakin's mass murder of the Jedi on Coruscant, etc etc.  Luke's journey to the island and him cutting himself off from the force could be a way to protect himself from being influenced again by this identity that is so strong within the darkside.  It should be noted however that Abeloth bathed herself in both the 'Wellspring' of darkside and lightside of the force.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 07:09:12 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
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Offline Cozarkian

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2018, 07:05:42 PM »
I think there is a statement that Kylo didn't lie but that doesn't mean that he knows the whole truth either.

Interesting. I checked and according to the director, Kylo said the truth about what he saw, while the director admits he doesn't know if the last movie will add further insight.

Thus, we might still have something like Rey's parents knew she was force strong and had to sell her to try to get to the Jedi academy to find her a tutor and for some reason or another were unable to return.

Maybe they actually won't make Rey a chosen one and we will instead just have the disappointment about how poorly and unbelievably the reveal was done.

Offline Rasins

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2018, 05:13:11 PM »
Can anyone explain the Sith structure, one master, one apprentice that was mentioned in Episode I?

Can there really only be 2 Sith in the entire Galaxy?
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Offline Cozarkian

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2018, 06:16:58 PM »
Can anyone explain the Sith structure, one master, one apprentice that was mentioned in Episode I?

Can there really only be 2 Sith in the entire Galaxy?

Jedi/Sith are opposed religions. Not all light side force users have to be Jedi and not all dark side users alhave to be Sith.

The always 2 comes from the practice the Sith have of internal betrayal - recall in the original trilogy Vader wanted to team up with Luke and overthrow the emperor. Layer, Palpatine tried to get Luke to kill Vader.

It isn't that there can literally only be 2, it is that the master tests potential apprentices by having then kill the current apprentice and apprentices become Masters by killing their master.

Note that Snoak appeared willing to let Rey join without killing Kylo Ren, which suggests Snoak isn't Sith.

Offline raidem

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2018, 06:35:28 PM »
Quote
Can anyone explain the Sith structure, one master, one apprentice that was mentioned in Episode I?
Can there really only be 2 Sith in the entire Galaxy?

In the expanded universe, the template for Sith is one to one, Master to Apprentice mainly. There are exceptions. Before I go into some of these, I'll state that no, there is no restriction on the number of Sith in the galaxy.  Although there number tends to be low because they end up backstabbing each other in their competition for power.

Palpatine had two apprentices he played against each other. Vader and some other, I forget his name.  I'm not sure if he was a Force wielder or just adept at something else but my memory suggests he was a Sith too.  Vader ended up having a Star Destroyer shoot his shuttle down while he was approaching Coruscant. 

Later on in the expanded universe, Luke and Ben Skywalker get ambushed by a group of Sith which proves there are more than two in the galaxy.  The group of Sith try to take out Luke try to take each other out in the ambush and Luke and Ben end up surviving it.  Sometime after that in going up against Abeloth, the Jedi and Sith team up to take her out. So, I'm sure I could have done better but these examples show that there are multiple Sith in the galaxy, that there is a template for master/apprentice with Sith, and that there are also temporary exceptions for 'apprentices' to prove themselves in competition among themselves to gain/keep the master.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 07:02:02 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline groinkick

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2018, 06:52:03 PM »
Can anyone explain the Sith structure, one master, one apprentice that was mentioned in Episode I?

Can there really only be 2 Sith in the entire Galaxy?

This will explain it in detail.  I believe the rule of 2 started with Darth Bane, but other Sith did not hold his belief.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kb5TyWS4qA
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Offline Rasins

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2018, 07:00:58 PM »
Regarding the Sith then .... how do their numbers expand?  If Vader had survived and Palpatine too, would Vader eventually become a "Master" Sith and sought out his own apprentice, and Palpatine getting another?
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Offline raidem

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2018, 07:06:23 PM »
Vader would only become Master if he killed Palpatine.  Palpatine killed his Master thereby becoming the leader/Master.  Palpatine knew Vader at some point would try to kill him, that is the Sith way.

So, Vader got his promotion, switched to the lightside, and died nearly all at the same time :).
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 07:15:50 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline groinkick

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2018, 07:14:35 PM »
Regarding the Sith then .... how do their numbers expand?  If Vader had survived and Palpatine too, would Vader eventually become a "Master" Sith and sought out his own apprentice, and Palpatine getting another?

Actually the way Lucas had it originally, Vader was evil.  He was not going to go light side at the end.  It was Vader vs Palpatine for Luke's loyalty.  So you could say that they both planned on killing the other, once they had Luke on their side.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

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Offline groinkick

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2018, 07:19:03 PM »
Regarding the Sith then .... how do their numbers expand?  If Vader had survived and Palpatine too, would Vader eventually become a "Master" Sith and sought out his own apprentice, and Palpatine getting another?

The idea is that the fewer Sith there are, the more power they have access to.  In theory if you have a lot of Sith, there is less power to draw upon.  The rule of 2 is just that, a rule.  It's not an iron clad law.  For example Palpatine had Darth Maul, and Count Dooku, breaking the rule of 2.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.