The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Random question about Nickelheads & Summer
Kindler:
--- Quote from: Rasins on December 13, 2017, 06:38:42 PM ---I was talking to my son the other day about the BAT and the apocalypses.
He suggested that maybe all of the various apocalypses either have happened already, or will. Meaning that perhaps Ragnarok has occurred and the Christians Apocalypse is next, or something like that.
--- End quote ---
It could relate to the changing of the guard at the Outer Gates.
I do find this quote from Gard to be interesting in relation to this:
--- Quote ---"Einherjar. Give them a little sip of renewed mortality, and four thousand years of discipline go right out the window."
--- End quote ---
1. Viking mythology simply does not go back to 2,000 B.C. Earliest records of Odin (or Woden, at the time) are Germanic in origin, dating to Julius Caesar's Commentary on the Gallic War, circa 1 B.C., where he was actually referred to as Mercury, because Romans were not particularly interested in understanding their enemies' religion. We're talking Bronze Age, predating proto-Nordic migration (which is currently estimated somewhere around 1,000 BC, if I remember). Odin was much, much, much, much older than Viking/Gallic culture. This is around the time Stonehenge was completed (anywhere from 3,000-2,000 B.C.. The stones themselves have been dated to somewhere between 2,400-2,200 BC, but there are so many conflicting reports, it's stupid, and there is some evidence that activity around the site involved rituals and constructions that date to 8,000 B.C., but that's a discussion for somewhere else).
Anyway, this supports Kringle/Vaderrung's intimations that he's changed a lot over the years, and may be something of a Time Abyss. Towards the end of the Nordic Neolithic Period (around 3,000-2,000 BC, right in our time frame), there is a ton of evidence that suggests new tribes of proto-Indo-Europeans moved into the region, which changed the language, and promoted the so-called Battle Axe Culture. In short, precisely the kind of people who would like Odin (or proto-Odin) as a deity. I posit that, in the Dresden Files, these are the people who participated in the 1,200 BC Nordic migration to Gaul, and mixing the people changed their culture, mythology, and deities, to eventually give us Odin.
The above might've been a little in the weeds, but Nordic and Viking Culture was something of a study of mine once upon a time, and I found this relevant.
2. Why are they mortal now?
This suggests either they have already fulfilled their purpose, that Valhalla is gone, or that their purpose is about to be fulfilled. I lean towards the latter, because in all of the stories, the Einherjaren lose.
isoycrazy:
--- Quote from: Kindler on December 21, 2017, 03:40:29 PM ---It could relate to the changing of the guard at the Outer Gates.
I do find this quote from Gard to be interesting in relation to this:
1. Viking mythology simply does not go back to 2,000 B.C. Earliest records of Odin (or Woden, at the time) are Germanic in origin, dating to Julius Caesar's Commentary on the Gallic War, circa 1 B.C., where he was actually referred to as Mercury, because Romans were not particularly interested in understanding their enemies' religion. We're talking Bronze Age, predating proto-Nordic migration (which is currently estimated somewhere around 1,000 BC, if I remember). Odin was much, much, much, much older than Viking/Gallic culture. This is around the time Stonehenge was completed (anywhere from 3,000-2,000 B.C.. The stones themselves have been dated to somewhere between 2,400-2,200 BC, but there are so many conflicting reports, it's stupid, and there is some evidence that activity around the site involved rituals and constructions that date to 8,000 B.C., but that's a discussion for somewhere else).
Anyway, this supports Kringle/Vaderrung's intimations that he's changed a lot over the years, and may be something of a Time Abyss. Towards the end of the Nordic Neolithic Period (around 3,000-2,000 BC, right in our time frame), there is a ton of evidence that suggests new tribes of proto-Indo-Europeans moved into the region, which changed the language, and promoted the so-called Battle Axe Culture. In short, precisely the kind of people who would like Odin (or proto-Odin) as a deity. I posit that, in the Dresden Files, these are the people who participated in the 1,200 BC Nordic migration to Gaul, and mixing the people changed their culture, mythology, and deities, to eventually give us Odin.
The above might've been a little in the weeds, but Nordic and Viking Culture was something of a study of mine once upon a time, and I found this relevant.
2. Why are they mortal now?
This suggests either they have already fulfilled their purpose, that Valhalla is gone, or that their purpose is about to be fulfilled. I lean towards the latter, because in all of the stories, the Einherjaren lose.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps They did lose, but then they chose to become more mortal, like Odin, giving up some power in exchange for access to Free Will once again, which seems to be one of the Ultimate Powers. They can now become more than their fated paths predicted long ago.
As for the original comment about Mother Summer and the Nickles, if Mab was willing to deal in good faith with Anduriel, I don't see why Mother Summer wouldn't either. It comes down to what Nick or Tessa paid for the plague, or do they owe a marker to Mother Summer?
Kindler:
--- Quote from: isoycrazy on December 25, 2017, 01:13:39 PM ---Perhaps They did lose, but then they chose to become more mortal, like Odin, giving up some power in exchange for access to Free Will once again, which seems to be one of the Ultimate Powers. They can now become more than their fated paths predicted long ago.
--- End quote ---
Maybe; that would require Ragnarok having happened, and, in my opinion, implicates the changing of the Outer Gates guardianship from Norse pantheon to Winter as Ragnarok; not the End, but the Change.
Rasins:
--- Quote from: Kindler on December 27, 2017, 02:25:42 PM ---Maybe; that would require Ragnarok having happened, and, in my opinion, implicates the changing of the Outer Gates guardianship from Norse pantheon to Winter as Ragnarok; not the End, but the Change.
--- End quote ---
This is about what I think. Maybe around Hastings? And that is why Mab and Tatiana haven't talked.
Kindler:
--- Quote from: Rasins on December 27, 2017, 05:26:30 PM ---This is about what I think. Maybe around Hastings? And that is why Mab and Tatiana haven't talked.
--- End quote ---
I wrote a post a while ago about Hastings marking the end of the Viking Age (seriously, the Viking Age ends about two weeks before Hastings; Stamford Bridge was a deathblow to their influence), and how I think William the Conqueror was a Starborn. It was such a monumental historical shift, a new status quo that persists today (Anglo-Normans sit on the English Throne right now, and have since 1066), and Titania's "I haven't spoken to my sister since Hastings" is too significant when paired with Jim's statements about the previous Winter Lady and "the last time a Starborn was running around."
My belief is that the Winter Court was established before Hastings, and had accumulated enough power and influence to take over the Outer Gates from Odin after the Vikings' defeat at Stamford Bridge, which was Odin's last attempt to hang on to his power. I believe that the previous Winter Lady was killed at Hastings—Summer and Winter had taken opposing sides, in my hypothesis—and that is why they haven't spoken. Mab is too furious with Titania after the death of her daughter.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version