The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
Firestarter:
Actually, I think that the only "evil" character is Kemmler. He's hurting people for entirely selfish reasons from what we've learned.
The other characters have either a higher goal in mind or are insane. This doesn't make their action less bad, but it doesn't mean, that they are evil. They have a goal and are simply unscrupulous. "The end justifies the means" I can't call that evil. I may give it various names, but I can't call it evil.
jonas:
--- Quote from: Firestarter on December 14, 2017, 11:01:14 AM ---Actually, I think that the only "evil" character is Kemmler. He's hurting people for entirely selfish reasons from what we've learned.
The other characters have either a higher goal in mind or are insane. This doesn't make their action less bad, but it doesn't mean, that they are evil. They have a goal and are simply unscrupulous. "The end justifies the means" I can't call that evil. I may give it various names, but I can't call it evil.
--- End quote ---
How do we know he wasn't one or the other? He was very steeped in Dark Magic corruption at the least, which is insanity inducing. Mayhaps how he appeared in the recent short story is indicative he was once more of a man then Monster?
wardenferry419:
Like Harry, Kemmler was a man that made choices. Unlike Harry, Kemmler let his good intentions slip away.
Firestarter:
--- Quote from: jonas on December 14, 2017, 11:12:14 AM ---How do we know he wasn't one or the other? He was very steeped in Dark Magic corruption at the least, which is insanity inducing. Mayhaps how he appeared in the recent short story is indicative he was once more of a man then Monster?
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: wardenferry419 on December 14, 2017, 11:34:05 AM ---Like Harry, Kemmler was a man that made choices. Unlike Harry, Kemmler let his good intentions slip away.
--- End quote ---
Well, my starting and ending point is the current information.
Nicodemus obviously believes that he's doing the right thing and is trying to build up power to save the world in the end. And he's somehow trying to battle Outsiders.
Ariana was conned by the Red King and is acting because of injured pride and out of revenge.
Mab is only doing her duty to protect the world from Outsiders.
The Red King is simply tending to his "herd". For him it's basically growing his food source and keeping his power / growing it.
Lord Raith is fairly similar to the Red King in this aspect.Alicia Nelson
Lara Raith dtto, only being sexier because female and a lot more seductive :)
Cowl is quite possibly working with Outsiders. Either got conned or believes to use the power of Outsiders to fight outsiders.
Corpsetaker wants power and is insane. It may be the conclusion of her jumping bodies and her psyche breaking part by part as she encounters various minds [ Luccio is also sometimes dreaming memories of Alicia Nelson ]
Maeve has mommy issues and is driven insane by the crazy libido she can't satisfy. Nemfection didn't help with that. Again, not evil, just a bit insane and a bit mind-controlled. I'm guessing it's similar to Aurora's problem
Mavra is simply one of the surviving Black Court members. As a vampire, she feeds on humans. It's her nature. We don't hate piranhas for killing people and animals because they want to feed. Although I most certainly wouldn't want them in an aquarium at home. Or my bathtub for that matter.
Polonius Lartessa is a bratty nasty girl who didn't manage to grow up in almost 2 millenia. But in the long-term she's probably working with Nicodemus.
Peabody is/was just a power-hungry small-minded thug.
Marcone is simply a businessman who decided, that controlling the mob is the best way to limit the bad things that happen. As was noted in the books, by someone, I think it was Nicodemus, he'd be a good king. Not a kind king, but a good one.
Shagnasty is a Navaho variant of a fallen angel. Kinda pitiful.
Evil Bob is created from twisted parts of Bob. And Bob kinda has a problem distinguishing between good and evil. So I expect "Evil" Bob to have the same issue.
Dracul... well... as someone who kinda read about Vlad II and Vlad III, they have been attributed many nasty things, but what they did was to protect their land from extremely hostile invaders. Again, not evil. Just doing what is necessary.
So there from me :)
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: jonas on December 13, 2017, 09:08:40 PM ---Bianca actually. Everything about her. Pretty sure Uppity Red Nobles seeking to ascend and intercourt Sorcerous activities were specifically on multiple lists.
--- End quote ---
How is that not adequately explained by a) her wanting revenge on Harry and b) Mavra manipulating her, including specifically teaching her how to use dark magic?
--- Quote ---There by ignoring all connections between Outsiders, Walkers and Nemesis. That Nemesis's presence in CD was manifested by a Walker and a bunch of minor outsiders trying to break open the Max security Prison.
--- End quote ---
I'm not ignoring that; I am not claiming that Nemesis is not a tool of the Outsiders and used by them.
I am saying that suddenly blaming Nemesis for most of everything that has gone wrong in the whole series is not supported.
--- Quote ---and actually, if you look at how the Fae pay lip service to the Balance/rent by not violating Hope, Love or Faith, I can directly connect here what you call N to something not directly Nemesis itself. Hope is balance with Fear, Fae service is Duty,(which I can totally find a complex paper someone else wrote on why Duty is a warriors form of Hope, but I lack the ability to sufficiently explain to my own satisfaction) Faith is keeping their word and Love is respecting Homestead laws(which love is the primary force of empowerment in a familial nature)
--- End quote ---
I'm not familiar with what you are referring to here; if this a bit of speculation/analysis from the past couple of years I may well have missed it.
--- Quote ---What's been satisfactorily explained?
--- End quote ---
Every major plot point prior to CD has a solid plausible explanation in the text except for Aurora going loopy.
Many of them have multiple solid plausible explanations in the text.
--- Quote ---But your insisting the opposite it feels like, that anything not Nemesis is not related to Nemesis..
--- End quote ---
I am not saying that.
I am saying anything not Nemesis is not proven to be related to Nemesis. There is a big difference.
--- Quote ---Nemesis infects Fairie specifically and easily because that's where they got their power, that's why Mab has an aspect of Judgement. From the Literal Greek Goddess Nemesis, and the Scales, those are HER scales. they fed her to the stone table and split the power and the image so that their would be no mirror not already balanced inside reality. So she'd have no foothold.
--- End quote ---
Again, where is this coming from? It makes sense, but I am not recalling textev for it unless I have missed a lot in a recent short story.
--- Quote ---Mayhaps the Yeats second coming,which is ALL about the coming apocalypse and is specifically mentioned by Murphy whenever things are getting wonky, also quoted by Maeve about being the 'falcon'. Nemesis is the destabilizing factor and then he quotes something that's been reference all over regarding that same destabilization...
--- End quote ---
Yep, because that poem is one of the most frequently quoted in any end of the world novel anywhere; George RR Martin uses it a lot in The Armageddon rag for example.
--- Quote ---Leaving out the Arctis Tor events... very selective reasoning on that.
--- End quote ---
We have no evidence linking Namshiel to Nemesis at Arctis Tor.
Here is a plausible alternative explanation:
Arctis Tor is normally guarded by tons of trolls and goblins. Harry and Thomas can't plausibly break through that big a force by themselves.
Mab can't ask Harry to break in and rescue Molly directly without using up a favour, which she doesn't want to do.
Mab can't just order the trolls away because that will be suspicious as heck.
Therefore, Mab hires a Denarian to attack the trolls and goblins and open the way for Harry. (we have a WoJ that Mab would sacrifice her entire court in an instant if there was gain to be had).
Namshiel, or possibly Nicodemus, was there working for Mab. This is why Mab owed Nicodemus a favour in SG.
Note also; Harry's first conversation with Mab in SmF involves her hiding something from his mind (the blasting wand), and distracting him from noticing with a brutal headache. When he mentions Namshiel at the end of SmF, she slaps him down again, and he never mentions Namshiel again. Not even when hanging out with Denarians.
Does this make sense to you?
--- Quote ---Multiple places, of course if we take everything said as wrong, then we have no idea what going on and neither you a leg to stand on as I can point this out too for literally everything, as everything is from Harry's perspective. So saying multiple sources are inherently lying or wrong becomes and endless cycle.
--- End quote ---
Not at all, because saying "everyone could be wrong" is not saying we haven't a leg to stand on. We can assess who might be wrong or lying based on what we know about them. Fallen lie all the time. Faerie tell the literal truth in a misleading way. Michael Carpenter's value of being a good man includes respect for the truth, but he has also said if anything good happens and he does not know where it comes from he credits the White God, which means that if he got a random gift from Odin and did what he said he does he would be wrong about its origin.
--- Quote ---Quite frankly as Mr. GK is the resident(as in resident of fricken reality) expert on said things I wouldn't see why we should simply dismiss him either.
--- End quote ---
I am not dismissing him. I would point out the inherent difficulties of confirming any evidence about Nemesis when part of your working model is "never mention it to anyone", though.
--- Quote --- We have Odins comment about Harry not yet seeing who the real players are too, but that won't count I suppose...
--- End quote ---
Oh, I entirely count that. It's part of why I believe the real players are still to come, and Nemesis is as much of a red herring for One-Explanation-For-Everything as the "Black Council" was.
--- Quote --- and just so I feel like i'm not the only one getting holes poked into them, for what purpose did the Red court thereby empower the Shadowman to do what he did in SF? Seems you like to have all your ducks in a row, what you got there?
--- End quote ---
I see several purposes there, depending on how well informed the enemies are. Challenge Harry; challenge Marcone; expose Harry to an option that nearly turns him to the dark side (just outside the Sells' house, before he hears the mysterious female voice, he is very near using the drug against the wardens); set Harry up to be executed; set Harry up to have the Doom lifted so that he'll be harder for the Council to disavow come GP and subsequent books when he is being set up as cause of the war.
--- Quote ---Cause fyi, it's also surmised Raith and his books of Magic were involved, what with the Name of Shadowmans old company having the word Silver in it and Lust being the most effective spellframe... funny that, a Red used spell is best used with Whites Lust power..
--- End quote ---
Funny that people regard that connection as significant when Odin tells Harry directly in Changes that the spell the Reds were using at CI was the one the Shadowman tested out; I take the direct evidence over the similarity there. Particularly as we know from "love Hurts" that the Reds are specifically doing research into understanding the White Lust power.
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