The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on December 13, 2017, 03:15:36 AM ---After the Council came within a hair's breadth of being wiped out several times.
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How, several times ?
I can see that they are doing less well between DB and PG. (Which is not something that can be attributed to the Red Court; principal deciding factor there is summoned Outsiders, and we know only humans can summon Outsiders.) That looks like one window to me.
jonas:
--- Quote ---Assuming for a moment that Nemesis is some sort of behind-everything boogeyman rather than a Fae-specific infection
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Point of fact N's forces have been seen in the workings of all 3 main Vamp Courts. Peabody and Cowl(whom are certainly in the mix) have little to do with the Fae themselves. Also, we Have Thorned Namshiel and all that business too so... not so much fae centric.
And then there is GK, and his list of things gone wonky(which he'd know what N's capable of) and his insistence on gazing upon Harry directly when he arrives to check him for Nfection... it was the whole point of his visit to the what's up dock in fact.
*note to self, GK's eye let's him look at someone's arc of fate(changed by changing the alloy of Harry himself when standing upon the island) same mechanism that finds Nemesis. NOT coincidence.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Arjan on December 13, 2017, 06:02:31 AM ---The Council was not the main force that attacked in Chicen Itza so that did not tell anything about the strength of the white council.
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Sure they were. The Grey Council are visibly wizards. Harry is a White Council member. To anyone who doesn't have the inside information we do from Harry's viewpoint, that's clearly a White Council operation.
--- Quote ---It is also clear from the book that nobody, except probably Odin, Mab and Uriel, anticipated this ending.
--- End quote ---
Seems clear to me Arthur Langtry knows it's coming.
--- Quote --- Hidden strength does not prevent a war, it was not taken into consideration by the red court when deciding about the war.
--- End quote ---
I'd argue that an accurate assessment of the Council's strength is why the Red Court have not been at war for them for centuries, and waited until they could put the Council legally in the wrong to do so.
--- Quote ---They really thought they had enough strength to stop enything the white council could bring against them in Chichen Itza otherwise they would have brought their warlock and outsider allies but this was a private party.
--- End quote ---
Their supposed allies hanging them out to dry is pretty visible there, yes.
--- Quote ---the white council depends on the support of Winter that is not really dependable or predictable.
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My previous post should show why I do not agree with that take on things.
--- Quote ---Except that this motivation is nowhere mentioned in the text.
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It's there if you can see through Haryr's prejudices.
--- Quote ---And we are talking about the red courts motivation and how the white council appeared to be. I think the white council is part of the structure against the outsiders and is as such protected by the elders if the situation really gets critical but few know about that and it was certainly not in the red courts mind when deciding about war.
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The Accords, sfaict, protects all its signatories, Council or Red Court. Hence, for example, Marcone being keen to sign up. I can totally buy tha structure having an anti-Outsider purpose.
--- Quote ---Because who was technical the agressor according to the accords if of tactical importance but it was always the red court who really decided about war or peace. It was always the red court who started the attacks.
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Since when does the person who starts the attacks make the decision about war or peace ? It's the choice of how to respond that determines whether that is a war.
--- Quote --- It was their perception of the situation that decided about war and peace. Not even the real strength of the council but the perceived strength. For preventing war it is better to look strong and be weak than vice versa.and the white council looked weak and acted weak before the war started
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Disagreed entirely. The Red Court is deeply divided. There would not have been a peace offer after Archangel if the Reds thought the Council was a pushover, and Ortega would not have been working so hard to stop the war in DM if he thought the war was winnable.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: jonas on December 13, 2017, 02:14:07 PM ---Point of fact N's forces have been seen in the workings of all 3 main Vamp Courts.
--- End quote ---
I am not recalling any evidence establishing this. Harry leaps to this conclusion at the end of CD, but the only thing Nemesis explains before CD that has not already been explained perfectly well is Aurora.
--- Quote ---Peabody and Cowl(whom are certainly in the mix) have little to do with the Fae themselves.
--- End quote ---
Well, there is that athame. Other than that we have nothing to connect them to Nemesis.
--- Quote --- Also, we Have Thorned Namshiel and all that business too so... not so much fae centric.
--- End quote ---
What do we have about namshiel, exactly ? Mab slapping Harry down when he mentioned it is not really conclusive of anything.
jonas:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on December 13, 2017, 02:22:50 PM ---I am not recalling any evidence establishing this.
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N has appeared or messed with every court, Reds in the beginning, likely inspiring the later division in the Reds in CH, Cowl trying to control the 'election' in WN of Wamps,(Outsiders, OUTSIDERS EVERYWHERE!), Mavra seems to be the most cuddly, buddy, buddy N ally ever...
--- Quote ---Harry leaps to this conclusion at the end of CD, but the only thing Nemesis explains before CD that has not already been explained perfectly well is Aurora.
--- End quote ---
I've not seen any explanations or anything that explains anything to satisfaction.
--- Quote ---Well, there is that athame. Other than that we have nothing to connect them to Nemesis.
--- End quote ---
Other than intentionally passing along an Nfected knife to Lea? For Cowl that would seem to be enough. Course you gotta start connecting other dot's then direct Nemesis reference(cause it's always so easy), Outsider connections, Peabody's 'the End is Nigh' command is pretty telling when your lookin at what N's trying to do of course.
--- Quote ---What do we have about namshiel, exactly ? Mab slapping Harry down when he mentioned it is not really conclusive of anything.
--- End quote ---
Nico doing it too means nothing certainly? It's later disappearance...
You can always choose to see things a certain way, but i'd like to see what evidence there is N is a fae only thing(especially when it's been described as a human affliction too, and been given mention by GK in things not fae relative)
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