The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Unsolved Mystery Book9 Cowl again
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Arjan on November 29, 2017, 09:33:18 PM ---Being a god can not be that bad. We have seen a few and they seem to amuse themselves.
--- End quote ---
And we also are told that they have very limited ability to affect material reality. We have no reason to presume that they have mortal free will, and the few we see are rather strongly aspected, in terms of having power within a particular sphere of interest or influence.
--- Quote ---Cowl could have taken the amount of power he needed for his next undertaking.
--- End quote ---
Why would you posit that god-tier power in the specific direction of necromancy is useful to the Outsiders' goals, whatever those might be ?
--- Quote ---With Cowl it is not about order or chaos on a personal level, it is about reaching goals for the outsiders in a really short term say before the end of the series.
--- End quote ---
That seems an unwarranted assumption to me. We have, sfaict, as yet no clear idea of Cowl's endgame; nor do we know how long he has been doing this. I would argue that him being Senior Council power level suggests he's been doing whatever he has been doing for a fairly long time, given that the examples we have seem to be wizards of multiple centuries in age.
--- Quote ---The power would be useful. It is would bring the end of reality closer. He could not let it go.
--- End quote ---
And again, you are asserting that the guy is essence of Chaotic. That he has no impulse control whatsoever, no ability to throw over a short-term possibility for a long-term plan that may be more in keeping with his ongoing goals. We have evidence that he has been working with Outsider-related stuff both in GP and in WN, and at least the plausible suggestion that he has been doing so a lot longer. The thought that he would throw that all over to grab particularly at necromantic power makes no sense to me.
Consider instead; Cowl and Mavra are working together. Cowl and Mavra work together in GP towards greater supernatural instability; setting up Lea to get the athame is also setting up Mavra to get Amoracchius. We know from SF that Bianca does not leave her enemies alive, she says so directly to Harry; therefore the whole Rube Goldberg scheme of inviting Harry to the party and kidnapping Susan to torment him is out of character for her. We do not know all of what is going on there, but we do know Bianca learned dark necromantic-type magic from Mavra, Harry registers this. We do not, technically, know which of them was running the Nightmare, but with the Nightmare as a sock puppet, Harry can be manipulated in a fairly detailed and immediate level all through that book (by his reactions to the Nightmare, to various other Red vampires, to the ghosts Mavra or Bianca torments with the black barbed-wire spell, and by Mavra and Bianca directly). Which succeeds in removing Amoracchius' protection, and which succeeds in pushing Harry and Bianca to a final confrontation which starts a war between the White Council and the Red Court that benefits neither of them.
So if we look at DB from the perspective that Cowl and Mavra are working together, things become clearer. Bony Tony is set up to find the Word. Mavra manipulates Harry into taking out the competition. (The photographs she takes of Murphy in BR to blackmail him in DB are fairly convincing proof that this is a deliberate set-up, to me.) Mavra wants the Word under control because, according to Harry in their confrontation at the end of DB, the Word contains instructions on how to use necromancy against the Black Court.
And, when Harry and Butters are talking in DB about the circumstances that made Chicago a possible place to have the Darkhallow, one of the things cited as contributing to that is the turbulence in the border between the NN and the real world there. Which is caused, in DB, by the ghosts tormented by black magic. So Mavra has actively contributed to making Chicago a possible Darkhallow site from several years earlier.
I find it easier to buy this set of cross-connections as competent people planning together than as people with poor impulse control blundering around like Keystone Kops and jumping from one plan to another whenever something shiny shows up. Particularly when the end result keeps being that people who jump for immediate gratification get killed in ways that benefit people who don't.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on November 30, 2017, 02:16:45 AM ---And we also are told that they have very limited ability to affect material reality. We have no reason to presume that they have mortal free will, and the few we see are rather strongly aspected, in terms of having power within a particular sphere of interest or influence.
--- End quote ---
We are told. But is that the same as we are shown?
--- Quote ---Why would you posit that god-tier power in the specific direction of necromancy is useful to the Outsiders' goals, whatever those might be ?
--- End quote ---
Killing people. Especially the senior council as nobody in the story seemed to think that impossible. That includes listen to wind and Morgan who are better informed than Harry.
A god called Odin turned up at Chichen Itza and was very involved.
Also there is no reason to think Cowl would become a necromancy god. Simmilar rituals have been used to create other gods who did not become necromancy gods.
--- Quote ---That seems an unwarranted assumption to me. We have, sfaict, as yet no clear idea of Cowl's endgame;
--- End quote ---
We actually do. The athame is a giveaway. There is no more end game after empty night and that was what he was trying to achieve by infecting the fairy courts.
--- Quote ---nor do we know how long he has been doing this. I would argue that him being Senior Council power level suggests he's been doing whatever he has been doing for a fairly long time, given that the examples we have seem to be wizards of multiple centuries in age.
--- End quote ---
Probably but the stars weren’t right and now with the bat in sight everyone is preparing for the end game.
--- Quote ---And again, you are asserting that the guy is essence of Chaotic. That he has no impulse control whatsoever, no ability to throw over a short-term possibility for a long-term plan
--- End quote ---
I did not say that at all. There was a lot of planning behind the darkhallow. It was not just that he decided to kill a lot of people to get powerful because hey it was halloween and that is what you do.
--- Quote ---that may be more in keeping with his ongoing goals. We have evidence that he has been working with Outsider-related stuff both in GP and in WN, and at least the plausible suggestion that he has been doing so a lot longer. The thought that he would throw that all over to grab particularly at necromantic power makes no sense to me.
--- End quote ---
You need power to achieve goals. Cowl is driven by goals. Those goals are for reasons I have stated the goals of the outsiders. Consider how the outsiders would have been helped by a more powerful tool and you get the idea.
--- Quote ---Consider instead; Cowl and Mavra are working together. Cowl and Mavra work together in GP towards greater supernatural instability; setting up Lea to get the athame is also setting up Mavra to get Amoracchius. We know from SF that Bianca does not leave her enemies alive, she says so directly to Harry; therefore the whole Rube Goldberg scheme of inviting Harry to the party and kidnapping Susan to torment him is out of character for her. We do not know all of what is going on there, but we do know Bianca learned dark necromantic-type magic from Mavra, Harry registers this. We do not, technically, know which of them was running the Nightmare, but with the Nightmare as a sock puppet, Harry can be manipulated in a fairly detailed and immediate level all through that book (by his reactions to the Nightmare, to various other Red vampires, to the ghosts Mavra or Bianca torments with the black barbed-wire spell, and by Mavra and Bianca directly). Which succeeds in removing Amoracchius' protection, and which succeeds in pushing Harry and Bianca to a final confrontation which starts a war between the White Council and the Red Court that benefits neither of them.
--- End quote ---
Which nicely fits into the outsiders overall goal of weakening the white council and the fairy courts.
--- Quote ---So if we look at DB from the perspective that Cowl and Mavra are working together, things become clearer. Bony Tony is set up to find the Word. Mavra manipulates Harry into taking out the competition. (The photographs she takes of Murphy in BR to blackmail him in DB are fairly convincing proof that this is a deliberate set-up, to me.) Mavra wants the Word under control because, according to Harry in their confrontation at the end of DB, the Word contains instructions on how to use necromancy against the Black Court.
And, when Harry and Butters are talking in DB about the circumstances that made Chicago a possible place to have the Darkhallow, one of the things cited as contributing to that is the turbulence in the border between the NN and the real world there. Which is caused, in DB, by the ghosts tormented by black magic. So Mavra has actively contributed to making Chicago a possible Darkhallow site from several years earlier.
I find it easier to buy this set of cross-connections as competent people planning together than as people with poor impulse control blundering around like Keystone Kops and jumping from one plan to another whenever something shiny shows up. Particularly when the end result keeps being that people who jump for immediate gratification get killed in ways that benefit people who don't.
--- End quote ---
Of course it was planning. The blundering around is a straw man that has no place in the discussion at all. But everything points to Mavra and the red court being independent agents with their own motivations at most influenced but certainly not directed by the outsiders. Cowl however is a different case. He just works too intimately with them and his actions risk empty night so close and do so knowingly that I do not consider him an independent agent at all. For his actions look at how the outsiders would profit.
So the darkhallow was planned even before Grave Peril. Harry is the only one blundering around here.
wardenferry419:
As far as Cowl and the darkhollow is concerned, I am working on the notion that it is similar to a near-sighted witness, sans glasses, describing a car crash. He may be mostly right or mostly wrong; but, he is not going to be all wrong or all right. Time may show how accurate the witness was in his description. Just my working opinion.
Rasins:
I like the theory that Cowl was working to get the Darkhallow power-up so that he could bust through the wards on the Facility at Edinburgh to kill the SC and as many of the resident wizards there to fulfill a deal with the Rampires.
jonas:
--- Quote from: Rasins on November 14, 2017, 06:19:42 PM ---I'm still unconvinced that mankind CAN be Nemfected.
I think it would be really easy for a nemfected wizard to summon outsiders, as human wizards are the only ones who can.
Now if Cowl were nemfected, wouldn't it make more sense for him to go around nemfecting other wizards to summon more outsiders?
No, Cowl isn't nemfected.
He IS however working with Nemesis.
--- End quote ---
Thing is like all mortals the Nfection is only deepened by continued choice, a wizard would have to override the will of another almost entirely to Nfect them(similar to the taking of Cat Sith) to a viable degree. But coming from within is possible and imo, this is why Warlocks are executed. They are manifestations of the smallest denomination. This would give a direct correlation between the actions of The Warden and wardens in general. Forgotten their purpose perhaps they have, but stopped doing the job they were intended for they did not.
...Also, can you imagine the shift in Harry if this is true and he finds it out? Morgan would make SOOO much more sense to everybody then.
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