The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Nicodemus wants to be God
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Rasins on November 06, 2017, 05:26:24 PM ---I think we've discussed this before, but ...
If you'll recall, the circle in MacFinn's townhouse was actually three in one circles.
One for purely mortal beings.
One for purely spiritual beings.
One for a mix of mortal and spiritual beings.
I'm thinking someone with an iron will COULD contain Uriel in such a circle.
--- End quote ---
All the will in the world couldn't contain something like Uriel. Archangels are absolute which is why they are immune to Nemesis. Their will is simply beyond what anyone is capable of achieving. If it were possible someone like Nicodemus would have worked with a group of dark wizards to do it.
Rasins:
See, I don't agree. I believe that Free-will has power over those who do not have it. And intimately Uriel does not have it.
Further, Harry DID summon him in Changes.
And summoning circles are just for summoning, so if he is Summonable, than that circle(s) would possible do the trick.
Arjan:
There is the circle in demonreach he used to summon Mab.
Avernite:
--- Quote from: Rasins on November 06, 2017, 06:53:39 PM ---See, I don't agree. I believe that Free-will has power over those who do not have it. And intimately Uriel does not have it.
Further, Harry DID summon him in Changes.
And summoning circles are just for summoning, so if he is Summonable, than that circle(s) would possible do the trick.
--- End quote ---
Well... Uriel does have free will. He just only has one Choice.
This, to me, sets him apart from other beings who lack Free Will (like possibly Mab, and certainly nearly everything controlled under Winter Law). Of course Ivy also is partly human, and so locking her in a circle required a whole host of measures to block her Will simply tearing the circle apart... and I rank Uriel more powerful, so it would require a truly imposing effort to even come close to imprisoning him.
In fact, given it took an Archangel to imprison Ivy, who I rank significantly lower on the power totem pole, it wouldn't surprise me if only TWG or the Outer Gods (provided such outsiders exist) could even attempt it - and with TWG, at least, it seems obvious that Falling would have weird interactions with such an attempt.
groinkick:
Avernite is correct. Uriel does have free will in that he can make a choice, it just is that if he chooses to misbehave he falls. Mab on the other hand cannot choose to violate her Mantle.
Also there is a difference in summoning a Being against it's free will, and summoning it and it choosing to answer. Harry was able to influence Toot because he knows his Name, he summoned Titania but she came by choice, not because he forced her to appear.
Jim said that the entire White Council might be able to take Mab if they had her Name... I don't see Mab at Uriel's level considering he can destroy a galaxy with a thought.
I don't see how an individual, or even large number of wizards could summon Uriel against his will.
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