The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Does Molly still have her soul?

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jonas:

--- Quote from: Snark Knight on September 27, 2017, 06:27:19 PM ---I recall the one he's referring to (something about "just look at the average newscast"), but I see your point that it seems incompatible with what we know of soulgazes. Nicodemus is pretty much the paragon of human evil, and Harry is pretty sure a look in his eyes would be the next best thing to madness-inducing, rather than just nothing at all.

--- End quote ---
Yea if I could find it, didn't even see this until you quoted it btw. I Looked but because of the broad variety of questions and topics that it could be thrown into I might have just plain missed it in the reference collection itself. Reply to Free will? Dark Magic? Fae? Another similarly worded question? Perhaps it's not even in there directly, but I'm positive I actually read this and not listened to it.

jonas:

--- Quote from: Arjan on September 26, 2017, 07:13:40 PM ---A view of the dresden files in book christians.It is also about what happens with it. It wouldn't surprise me at all if in the dresden files hindus get reincarnated and christians not. The books are pretty vague about what next is, it is entirely possible.

Besides knowing about the soul and an afterlife is not the same as valueing it. Maybe you want to escape the cycle. Maybe you want to stay behind as a shade to help your descendants. Maybe you want to find a purpose like Mab did.The white god is a title you use if you are not a follower. The white god was not that important in the past and he might not be that important in the future. Things change.

She knows Hades as well, a lot of souls went to the him in stead of the Christian afterlife. She probably expected to go somewhere else.

It is not just about what is but also about how you look at it. Why would she want to be a shade attending some god that is not hers? She has a purpose, she has fullfillment. Eternity is overrated.

Ask Gard, she will tell something similar.

I think Michael will be concerned but strangely enough I think Uriel is not, I do not see any evidence for it in the books.

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--- Quote ---The same story [Backup] seemed to imply that entities could gain or lose power retroactively, in a wibbley-wobbly timey-wimey sort of way. For example, The Almighty is the Creator of the Universe, but He hasn't always been the Creator of the Universe[4] . Is there anything to this assumption, and if so, might we see it explored in greater detail later?
Jim: 7) You're assigning limits where there aren't any. In the Dresden Files universe, what changes really isn't the actual beings. It's our understanding of who and what they are
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toodeep:
Great thread.  Raises a lot of the important questions.  I'll try to put some of my thoughts in order:

1.  Molly had a choice about becoming the winter lady.  When the power came to her she could have chosen to resist and been killed.  Choice in a "convert or die" situation is still a choice.

2.  To my mind, the mantle suppresses access to the soul.  If one has a strong enough soul, and the strength to exercise it by actively using their free will, than the soul may survive and be useable, but if not it just slowly gets ground down until it is effectively not there.  This explains why you can't soulgaze a fey (because the soul is suppressed) but I think that Mab actively exercised free will in not immediately just killing Maeve, which would have been the most winter-ish action that her Mantle should have pushed her toward.

3.  The soul of a mortal is never "destroyed" especially not by making dark choices.  After all, those dark choices are still choices, and an exercise of free will.

So in my thoughts, her soul is still present, somewhere, but it is a much bigger struggle to exercise it than it used to be.  She can still be saved if the Mantle is removed.

My big question about the soul is the one that has been discussed before about ghosts.  Harry and the Corpsetaker may have been running around in the souls, but the old british soldier should not have been, his ghost was supposed to be just a ghost, and yet at the end of the book we see him getting a job offer from an angel.  How can a ghost work for an angel in a job peopled by souls?  Shouldn't his soul already be wherever it was judged to be?  Are all ghosts souls?  Then how was there a live Harry and a ghost Harry simultaneously?  It gets very murky very quick.

Arjan:
I do it think that Stuart was a soul as well even if he did not know it himself. He was just stronger than the rest and Uriels interest points in that direction.

Clearly you can choos to stay behind if your spirit is strong enough Uriel and Harry even discussed that possibility at the end of ghost story but Uriel said Harry's spiritual essence had become too weak. It is what necromancers can do if they want to return but also if you strongly feel something needs to be done. Maybe it is how ancestor worship originated.

jonas:

--- Quote from: Arjan on September 27, 2017, 08:56:47 PM ---I do it think that Stuart was a soul as well even if he did not know it himself. He was just stronger than the rest and Uriels interest points in that direction.

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He's a Roman ancestor spirit,(well, he's the same thing anyway) it's why he kept his self all those years, he had a purpose in protecting his lineage. He talks about in GS how all ghosts start to loose themselves eventually. I can't recall directly but something about that caught me up one day about why he never did, classically, ancestor spirits don't drift apart into shades or... whatever they called them.

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