The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Was Justin preparing Harry to learn necromancy?
Mira:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on September 15, 2017, 10:56:06 PM ---I feel like he would have said something about Justin teaching him that stuff. And that's not something Justin would necessarily go in to before he has his hooks fully in them. Even for isolated kids like them, raising the dead is a well known taboo.
I chalk it up to natural (or possibly unnatural) ability, either due to possessing a piece of Kemmler's spirit (not soul), or something to do with the complicated confluence of energies that went into creating becoming a Starborn.
--- End quote ---
Justin didn't have Kemmler's book on the subject either as far as we know, it would also be unless to him unless he knew German. Remember it was so to Harry until Lasciel's shadow translated for him. Bob in full Kemmler/computer mode was a killer, I doubt that even Justin could control him, he nearly killed Harry. Harry is a powerful wizard in his own right, so it isn't a huge leap to see him being able to raise the dead if he had the instruction manual... I doubt that it is all that hard to do by a competent powerful wizard, that is why one of the Laws of Magic forbids it
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Snark Knight on September 16, 2017, 03:24:31 AM ---Assuming most of those explanations were by way of Justin, there's a big difference between him explaining the basics of dark techniques and doing an actual demo. Actually raising a zombie would have tipped Harry and Elaine that he was evil, and risked them running away before he could spring the enthrallment plan (assuming Elaine wasn't in on that voluntarily).
I'm still on the fence about the central question, but I wouldn't rule out Justin as the source of it for that reason.
--- End quote ---
I don't doubt that Justin might have talked about it. Eb being the only source seems unlikely, and Harry didn't have all that much interaction with other wizards until after DB.
But I don't see him having personal experience with it when he explicitly said he's never seen a zombie before. I'd say it falls under general information.
Assuming Justin fought zombies when he went up against Kemmler, he'd likely know something about them. And since he was training Harry to be a fighter, he would have made sure he was informed about things he might face (the exception, of course, being any information about the White Council or other wizards)
DonBugen:
--- Quote from: Snark Knight ---Assuming most of those explanations were by way of Justin, there's a big difference between him explaining the basics of dark techniques and doing an actual demo. Actually raising a zombie would have tipped Harry and Elaine that he was evil, and risked them running away before he could spring the enthrallment plan (assuming Elaine wasn't in on that voluntarily).
--- End quote ---
Griffyn -> what he said, basically. I didn't ask, "did Justin teach Harry necromancy"; it was "was Justin preparing Harry to learn necromancy?" I mean, if Harry and Elaine learned this information from Justin as part of their 'training', it would teach them a great deal about the mindset and mechanics of necromancy, all without Harry really being confident that he knew a thing about them.
Because, let's face it: all of the information that Harry gives Butters is, essentially, correct. Harry might believe that what he knows may very well be crap, but everything he says is on the nose. So wherever he got that information from, it was a pretty good source. They knew their stuff - and like I said before, they knew not only how a Necromancer does his works, but why it works the way it does and how to go about performing it.
I mean, he wouldn't be the first Harry to have an evil Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher lecturing on dark curses, after all. :D
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: DonBugen on September 16, 2017, 04:04:59 AM ---Griffyn -> what he said, basically. I didn't ask, "did Justin teach Harry necromancy"; it was "was Justin preparing Harry to learn necromancy?" I mean, if Harry and Elaine learned this information from Justin as part of their 'training', it would teach them a great deal about the mindset and mechanics of necromancy, all without Harry really being confident that he knew a thing about them.
Because, let's face it: all of the information that Harry gives Butters is, essentially, correct. Harry might believe that what he knows may very well be crap, but everything he says is on the nose. So wherever he got that information from, it was a pretty good source. They knew their stuff - and like I said before, they knew not only how a Necromancer does his works, but why it works the way it does and how to go about performing it.
I mean, he wouldn't be the first Harry to have an evil Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher lecturing on dark curses, after all. :D
--- End quote ---
My bads then. I was misunderstanding what you were saying. I thought you were saying Justin was teaching him how to raise the dead. But him giving Harry some info on such types of magic that he might encounter, and Eb expanding on that somewhat when Harry shared what he knew, makes sense.
--- Quote from: Mira on September 16, 2017, 03:50:10 AM --- Justin didn't have Kemmler's book on the subject either as far as we know, it would also be unless to him unless he knew German. Remember it was so to Harry until Lasciel's shadow translated for him. Bob in full Kemmler/computer mode was a killer, I doubt that even Justin could control him, he nearly killed Harry. Harry is a powerful wizard in his own right, so it isn't a huge leap to see him being able to raise the dead if he had the instruction manual... I doubt that it is all that hard to do by a competent powerful wizard, that is why one of the Laws of Magic forbids it
--- End quote ---
I think a contributing factor might have also been Evil Bob's mote of necro-energy, which Harry came into contact with very early on in the book. Grevane smelled it on him in their first encounter.
That necro-energy could go a ways towards helping Harry handle the necro-magic as well as he did.
Second Aristh:
Isn't there some mention that Eb didn't really teach Harry much about the nuts and bolts of magic but more about using magic responsibly?
Regardless, I'm not so sure how much raising Sue points to Harry having an affinity for necromancy. We already knew that Harry has lots of power to throw around with a weakness in control. Thaumaturgy lets him play up his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. With that in mind, he's also got Lash in his head directing everything from behind his eyeballs. It's not just Harry having an instruction manual; it's Harry having an instruction manual with an angel on his shoulder warning him whenever he's close to making a mistake.
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