The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Denarian Dresden
Rasins:
--- Quote from: Kindler on September 25, 2017, 07:01:51 PM ---None of them can be older than about 2,000 years (give or take a few decades), yet we saw one of them collapse into dust pretty much immediately after the aquarium fight in Small Favor. It could be that death accelerated the process, or that the Noose would halt or slow it for Nicodemus. Cassius started aging rapidly, but managed to make it a few years, though I didn't get the feeling that he was that old.
I think the Noose might be a difference maker. He didn't pull a Holy Grail scene from the end of Last Crusade and turn into a desiccated husk when he gave up the coin briefly in Skin Game—but that also could have been a clue that he wasn't really setting it aside.
--- End quote ---
I took Nick's anti-aging in SK as he was just not away from the coin long enough for it to start to catch up with him. Even Cassius didn't immediately get old when Harry broke his arms and legs.
As to how old Cassius is ... I thought he came from Egypt and that it had been quite a while. Centuries at least. I'll have to look into that one.
SerScot:
Anubissama,
--- Quote from: Anubissama on September 08, 2017, 06:56:31 PM ---Honestly, the whole argument that Mab is the lesser evil doesn't really make sense to me. Let's compare the two:
Winter Knight
- you only get power, some supernatural strength, and painkiller. All tied to your position of Knight
- you have a constant 24/7 temptation of the instinct that the Mantle awakes in you
- there is literally only one person in the history of mankind that managed to get out of this position alive
Knight of the Blackened Denari
- you get a power boost via Hellfire (and maybe in Dresdens case at this point he could have both Hell and Soulfire) which is directly tied to your position and a Coin holder, you are functional immortal, and you get superb healing no faking via painkillers, but most importantly you get knowledge and magical experience beyond the reach of ANY creature on the planet. This is where the real power boost of the Denari lie, and if you ever leave you get to keep that knowledge.
- the only temptation is intellectual, yes Lash might converse with your subconscious but at the end of the day, those conversations are also based on logic and reason. There is a whole world of difference between being tempted on an instinctual emotional level, and being tempted on a logical Socratic level. IMHO it is much easier to withstand the later than a constant nagging from your urges.
- there is literally a world spanning organisation dedicated to helping you get rid of the coin (and as mentioned if you leave you keep most of the power boost anyway) so your odds of getting out alive are astronomically higher
If you are looking for the best power boost, with the highest chance of retaining yourself, and best odds of surviving and leaving it behind, Denari win out against Mab.
--- End quote ---
I disagree. Harry was already being changed by the shadow of Lashiel. If he took up the coin the real Lashiel would have been infinintly worse for him. No, Harry made the right call. Mab while dark and dangerous is not "Evil". She is willing to do horrible things to facilitate her goal of defending the Outer Gates. That is not the same thing as being "EvilTM".
Con:
I think Evil actions are in the actions themselves not in an ends justif the means scenario, where oh all of the horrible torture and murder Mab does is because she fights Outsiders. That's the exact same argument Nicodemus uses.
How is one evil less evil than the other?
Judge a person by their actions first, their friends second and their enemies third. Mab's actions are torture and murder. Her friends/subjects are torturers and murders. Her enemies in addition to Outsiders include the much more benevolent Summer Court (not saying they're holey good, but certainly better than Winter).
Why is Mab anymore "Good type of Evil" than Nicodemus.
People's main argument is that Lasciel is less predictable than Mab. Personally I disagree. Harry already motivated and moved one supposedly immutable being the Shadow who wasn't supposed to have any choice, why not another?
I'm not saying he would have necessarily succeeded but I think he'd have a better shot with Lasciel then Mab. Mainly because Harry has Uriel on one shoulder who would be a much more direct counter point to Lasciel than Mab.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Con on September 28, 2017, 04:29:18 AM ---I think Evil actions are in the actions themselves not in an ends justif the means scenario, where oh all of the horrible torture and murder Mab does is because she fights Outsiders. That's the exact same argument Nicodemus uses.
How is one evil less evil than the other?
Judge a person by their actions first, their friends second and their enemies third. Mab's actions are torture and murder. Her friends/subjects are torturers and murders. Her enemies in addition to Outsiders include the much more benevolent Summer Court (not saying they're holey good, but certainly better than Winter).
Why is Mab anymore "Good type of Evil" than Nicodemus.
People's main argument is that Lasciel is less predictable than Mab. Personally I disagree. Harry already motivated and moved one supposedly immutable being the Shadow who wasn't supposed to have any choice, why not another?
I'm not saying he would have necessarily succeeded but I think he'd have a better shot with Lasciel then Mab. Mainly because Harry has Uriel on one shoulder who would be a much more direct counter point to Lasciel than Mab.
--- End quote ---
The main argument is Mab's purpose. Mab's purpose is to defend reality. She is compared with a body's immune system. Nicodemus is someone who has to be saved from the fallen who are corrupting, guiding and after so many years just controlling him. His purpose is that of the fallen and the fallen are the antithesis of the swords in this case.
Nicodemus is at least as evil as Michael is good. That should be answer enough but on top of that Nicodemus is actively interested in harming humans, Mab is not and most of her subjects are not really interested in humans either. Humans are further shielded by a lot of rules and the summer court. She is part of a structure.
Con:
I think it's a stretch to say most of Mab's subjects aren't interested in humans, as most of the nastier ones seem to feed on human suffering and death. Summer and Winter are as much a balance to each other as Denarians and Knights of the Cross.
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