The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
Mr. Death:
Mab doesn't seem like the type to write in a provision letting the losers get payback for losing a war they started, with a weapon they created themselves.
Mab, to me, seems much more likely to include language in the Accords to the effect of, "You brought it on yourselves."
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on September 12, 2017, 12:53:57 PM ---First, that's a pretty big assumption.
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From a Doylist perspective, there's not much point in bringing the Eebs back unless you're establishing that the Ramps are still going to be around. Therefore, them surviving and them being able to reproduce are part of the whole.
--- Quote ---As for them being more powerful... eh, I'm not totally sold on that. They have a few crippling and -- most importantly -- well-known weaknesses that let pre-infection Susan take a few of them out.
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It's said in the books that the Wamps are inferior to the other vampires, strength and speed-wise. As for Susan, I think that's a stretch. Pre-bite, she used holy water and a gun to likely kill one. She helped the others keep some at bay. That's all that said about that.
Considering that they were obviously trying to take Susan and Justine alive (because they did) it changes the dynamic of the fight. They weren't going for the kill.
--- Quote ---Truth is we don't know what all their servitors can do. Having minions that don't have glaring weaknesses or an addiction to blood might be worth the trade-off of power.
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I'm willing to bet there's some that are more formidable. But as general shock troops, do you think the ones we saw so far would be better than Ramps? Short of taking out their blood bladder, Ramps are hard to take out. The servitors so far fell like chaff.
--- Quote ---If there were more than the two most cowardly examples of the species, I'd agree with you more.
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I think your definition of cowardly is odd. Staying alive to complete your mission is an interesting take on cowardice.
And if Harry hadn't had the get-out-of-paralysis-free card to play, they would have won. He had to sell his proverbial soul to overcome their machinations.
--- Quote ---Think of it this way, though. Let's say they show up in Peace Talks on official business. Harry knows where they were last seen. He's on speaking terms with the guy who had them. You don't think he's going to ask? You don't think everyone else -- like the White Council contingent -- is going to notice that the Fomor had been allied with a group that had so recently tried to genocide them?
The Fomor or Nemesis would have to show a few of their holding cards to get them out and keep them out. I don't think it's worth it.
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I already provided two examples of how that could go down. One is that the Erlking lets them go to preserve a hunter species. The other is that the traitor has them freed and frames someone else that won't be around to answer questions. Some minor Lord of the Court is convinced to do it, and is then betrayed by the spy and knocked off.
Erlking is left with suspicions, but nothing to work with. And if he wasn't already keeping a suspicious eye on his people, given all the infiltration lately among the Sidhe Courts, he's an idiot.
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on September 12, 2017, 02:12:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kindler on September 12, 2017, 01:10:47 PM ---What if they're planning to use the peace talks to demand restitution for, you know, genocide?
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Mab doesn't seem like the type to write in a provision letting the losers get payback for losing a war they started, with a weapon they created themselves.
Mab, to me, seems much more likely to include language in the Accords to the effect of, "You brought it on yourselves."
--- End quote ---
I concur that restitution is unlikely. They could arrive as part of the Fomor party, or they could arrive as survivors that are looking to get some minor Accords protection as they re-establish their Court, conceding that they're done with war and revenge. Until they're not.
Kindler:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on September 12, 2017, 02:12:59 PM ---Mab doesn't seem like the type to write in a provision letting the losers get payback for losing a war they started, with a weapon they created themselves.
Mab, to me, seems much more likely to include language in the Accords to the effect of, "You brought it on yourselves."
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on September 12, 2017, 03:29:27 PM ---I concur that restitution is unlikely. They could arrive as part of the Fomor party, or they could arrive as survivors that are looking to get some minor Accords protection as they re-establish their Court, conceding that they're done with war and revenge. Until they're not.
--- End quote ---
I was thinking more that the Fomor would use the Eebs, as the only surviving members of the Reds, as political levers. Consider what fining the White Council a weregild for each member of the Red Court Harry killed as a result of the curse would cost. Harry did point out that the economic power of the White Council was one of their most effective weapons. This could bankrupt them, even if Harry doesn't personally have to pay for it. Though it would be kind of funny if he had to immediately lose all of the diamonds he just acquired from Skin Game because of a supernatural legal case.
Does Mab actually get the final say? I think she might, but I think the other signatories' opinions might matter. I'm not really disagreeing, I'm just unsure what the arbitration process is for the Accords. Is there a vote? A jury trial, or an opportunity to one? Is Mab essentially the Supreme Court?
Anyway, my overall idea wasn't that the Eebs would press a claim, but that the Fomor, if they had them smuggled out, might use them as witnesses to level charges at Harry, the White Council, and Winter. Think about all of the Reds that (being monsters aside) were minding their own business in Paris or Athens when their hearts exploded out of their chests. Ditto to all of the half-turned ones who died; the same argument for claiming the ladies of the Ordo and the lesser talents as part of the White Council's legitimate interests (which allowed Harry and Ramirez to challenge the whites to a duel) could be made of them, and they never necessarily committed murder. Countless within the Reds' sphere of influence who had absolutely nothing to do with the bloodline curse were killed because of the assault on Buffalo Chicken Pizza.
Super unlikely, sure, but I'm not a lawyer and I could make those arguments, and sympathizers and appeasers like Cristos could sway opinions enough for it to have a real impact. I think it would actually be pretty interesting if that happened, if for no other reason than the Eebs were pathetic excuses for villains, and their affect on global politics in the supernatural community could be way, way out of proportion with their abilities and actual contributions.
Mr. Death:
Weregild is to avoid further conflict, and avoid starting a war.
The White Council was already at war with the Red Court. They wouldn't pay weregild for any of the enemy combatants killed.
The war's over and the Red Court lost. That's basically the end of it. It doesn't make sense to then have some kind of charges pressed against the White Council for winning it.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: wardenferry419 on September 12, 2017, 08:55:45 AM ---Is there WOJ that Lord Raith is going to die or is that a rumor/speculation?
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Well I think that the belief is that most in the White Court knows Raith is a puppet now. Not sure if there is a woj. Thomas is going to play a big role in the story. If Lord Raith is going to be killed, or die I think this is probably the book for it.
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