Author Topic: Faith's importance spoilers  (Read 16027 times)

Offline Quantus

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2017, 07:42:10 PM »
And don't forget that Molly is actually stronger than Harry in some ways. 

She doesn't have the brute force that Harry does, but she can get things done where Harry couldn't.
More Dangerous, more arguably Formidable, but not actually Stronger (pre-CD, anyway)
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Offline Rasins

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2017, 08:37:37 PM »
More Dangerous, more arguably Formidable, but not actually Stronger (pre-CD, anyway)

All a matter of perspective.
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Offline Quantus

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2017, 09:03:31 PM »
All a matter of perspective.
No, it's really not, that's what Im saying.  Strength vs Weakness in magic is an objective, quantifiable thing. Molly cannot summon the same amount of raw magical Power that Harry can, any more than Luccio can; it's magical weightlifting and Harry's max weight simply beats Molly's.  That is not a relative thing, or a matter of perspective.  What is relative is whether one or the other is more Dangerous, More Formidable, or any such measure of the /usefulness/ of magic. Being the Stronger Fighter doesnt make you the Better Fighter, but you are still the Stronger Fighter.

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Offline Warden John Marcone

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2017, 11:03:54 PM »
Here's another way to put it.  The 6'6" body builder is obviously stronger than the 5'9" aikido master.  The aikido master will still throw the body builder around with ease.  Skill will beat raw strength let's call it 4 out of 5 times.

Harry may be magically stronger, but if he ever throws down with Luccio for instance, I'm putting my money on Ana.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 11:05:44 PM by Warden John Marcone »
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Offline jonas

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2017, 07:05:15 AM »
And don't forget that Molly is actually stronger than Harry in some ways. 

She doesn't have the brute force that Harry does, but she can get things done where Harry couldn't.
Does he consider her a heavy weight though? Cause both calls are made on his perspective, but I didn't think he'd given her that much credit. More skilled perhaps, but nobody ever accused Bruce Lee of being a heavy weight contender lol.
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Offline kazimmoinuddin

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2017, 08:40:42 PM »
Not only will faith will be important, but that ring that Harry gave will be important or key somehow.
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Offline Kindler

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2017, 02:38:36 PM »
Not only will faith will be important, but that ring that Harry gave will be important or key somehow.

That's a good point. Remember, Harry notes that nobody had ever clocked his force ring until Kumori told him to take it off during their half-hour truce powwow. Faith would definitely check to see if he had a magic ring. Hmm.

But come on, we all know that Kumori is actually little Jenny Sells all grown up and trying to fix the world after her father ruined her life. (/sarcasm).

I do think that Kumori is someone we've seen in the main series, actually, not one of the short stories, someone who's shown up on the page of the novels. Really reaching here, but what about a resurrected Kim Delaney? A wide-eyed idealist with a track record of messing with stuff that's way too powerful for her is brought back from a terrible death by Necromancer Cowl, then apprenticed and taught that all death could be conquered with enough power. Sure, I could see it. Almost certainly not the case, of course, but with necromancy involved, it's hard to eliminate too many people.

Offline Rasins

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2017, 03:54:43 PM »
Does he consider her a heavy weight though? Cause both calls are made on his perspective, but I didn't think he'd given her that much credit. More skilled perhaps, but nobody ever accused Bruce Lee of being a heavy weight contender lol.

Doesn't matter.  Harry can, and has been shown to be wrong in the books.
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Offline Paviel

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2017, 06:48:42 PM »
Quote
But come on, we all know that Kumori is actually little Jenny Sells all grown up and trying to fix the world after her father ruined her life. (/sarcasm)

Why the sarcasm? She could be Jenny Sells, couldn't she?

Offline Rasins

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2017, 07:20:32 PM »
Why the sarcasm? She could be Jenny Sells, couldn't she?

I don't think so.  She'd be too young, I think.  IIRC, she was about 10 in SF.  She'd only have been about 15 in Dead Beat, barring time travel of course.
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Offline Paviel

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2017, 07:23:15 PM »
Couldn't Kumori have been 15 in Dead Beat? Some 15-year-olds are biologically adult.

Offline kazimmoinuddin

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2017, 09:50:39 PM »
Some monsters can be affected by faith, even harmed. The ring Harry gave her glowed due to faith in magic, so after years of use, it could be deadly in the right circumstances.
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Offline jonas

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2017, 01:44:02 AM »
Some monsters can be affected by faith, even harmed. The ring Harry gave her glowed due to faith in magic, so after years of use, it could be deadly in the right circumstances.
Holy, i'd forgotten that ring...
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Offline jonas

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2017, 06:41:34 AM »
Doesn't matter.  Harry can, and has been shown to be wrong in the books.
Being wrong and having sensed something entirely wrong are two different things. He's been wrong on facts and deductions. You can't say his senses are so skewed he reads Molly as a skilled lightweight one day and a heavy hitter of council proportions the next. That's non germaine to being right or wrong, it's based solely on empirical evidence which is always a matter of perception. This would be paramount to saying he's wrong about a comparison in height to another person because later he changes said comparison from himself to another person in relativity. I can't even begin to...  There's just something there that just doesn't translate well into sanity..
Does matter.
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Offline Kindler

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Re: Faith's importance spoilers
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2017, 06:27:33 PM »
Why the sarcasm? She could be Jenny Sells, couldn't she?

Mostly sarcastic about my false tone of certainty. I think it's super unlikely that Jenny Sells is Kumori, but there's just nothing that really supports the idea. Plus she'd have to be old enough in Grave Peril to accompany Cowl to the party, and I had her pegged at, like, ten during Storm Front.

My overall point in the post was that there is so little information about Kumori that the suspect pool isn't usefully small. We basically know she's tall enough to hold a knife to Dresden's throat (as has been pointed out in most threads), that she's idealistic, particularly about magic, that she knows necromancy (at least enough necromancy to temporarily halt death), and that Dresden knows her. That pretty much eliminates Murphy and hardly anyone else. And, like I said, with necromancy being a relatively unknown quantity (what are the functional limits? Could someone be resurrected from the dead, like Kemmler evidently was? Does Cowl know how to do that?) you might not even be able to write off dead characters.

She's really only present for... what, three speaking scenes, total? "Priscilla" in White Night tricked Dresden for longer than that. How do we know it's even a woman? Maybe the reveal is that Kumori is actually... Ebenezar (*cue musical sting*). Not really, of course; it's just that there are so many precedents for unorthodox disguises, like "Priscilla," not to mention illusion magic, faerie glamour, and even platform shoes that make even physical descriptions fallible.

Brainwashing is a thing—see Elaine. Cowl definitely has the juice to pull it off if Justin did. Can you even tell if her idealism is her own? Does she even remember being Kumori, or is her memory being tampered with like Dresden's was in Small Favor? Might very well be a persona that Cowl just activates whenever he needs a flunky, and there's precedent for the kind of mental domination it'd require. Hell, the Darkhallow might have had enough of a magical backlash that Cowl's mental hold on her was broken, which is why she's not seen with him next time he shows up.

Then people like to toss around time travel, and that just completely obliterates any names you might otherwise eliminate—Margaret the Elder, Maggie Dresden, and so on. One of the reasons I hope time travel isn't really confirmed to be a thing that Dresden can do is because then every hanging thread can be answered with it. Who's Cowl? Harry from the future. Who tried to run Harry off the road in Proven Guilty? Harry from the future. Who fixed Little Chicago? Mouse from the future, after finishing college and becoming the first Pupper President (he'd have my vote).

Not to say Mr. Butcher couldn't do it well, because I think he can, but it would play merry hell with pretty much any hanging plots and is a pretty messy way of making everything neat, if that makes any sense.

For me, the frustrating thing is that Harry doesn't seem to care about Cowl and Kumori's identities nearly as much as we do, so we're never going to know until he runs into them and literally unmasks them.

Anyway, the overall point is just that there is not nearly enough information for me to make a real guess, so pretty much everything I say about Kumori is sarcastic—which isn't intended to diminish anyone else's ideas or take away anyone's fun, I promise.