The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Summoning Question
jonas:
--- Quote from: Zaphodess on July 28, 2017, 08:04:26 AM ---Maybe the Summoning won't be done by his name but by blood. -Harry is different from Harry, they don't have the same Name any more. It's the nature of mortal Names to change over time. So -Harry can't know it. But they do share the same blood.
Or -Harry just tries out a couple of variants of his name in the hope that one will find another Harry that is still alive.
--- End quote ---
I imagine the whole reason !Harry can summon Harry is he does know his full name. He just has to slightly modify the idea behind it, maybe the precise inflections, with the intention to summon a slightly off version of yourself. Harry does precisely the same thing to Elaines name in WN btw so it's not entirely unprecedented. Little Wag: I think this is why !Harry is going to get much more than he bargained for, he's imagining a Harry already deceased(Harrys cup broke the lid but it's still full, if you know what I mean). Which is a fallacy of perception towards life and death on !Harry's part I think.
*Harry being good at deducing names may be another OG Merlin link, He had to have some way to get all those things there after all.
@Quantus, #2Don't we have a woj about if what happened in TC violated any any laws with the Merlins coordination effort and the answer was "we'll find out"?
#1I think that might depend on the directness of the link.. thinking of a woj(this one i'm rather certain exists) about if someone tried to control Mab with just that one name, Not having enough leverage. What Harry does to Toot is using his precise unbroken name, same as he latter does calling EK. EK had to know it was a trap, he just couldn't not show up to such a direct link to him. Notice most of the summonings that seem backed by 'choice of answering' are also using incomplete or common names for those things, or just plain asking as Harry seems to in DB of Lea.
What I wonder is if you call on something can more show up? Say, you call Odin, bad idea all around I know, can Kringle also make his power known? Technically different beings, summoning one doesn't necessarily summon the other does it? Now say instead you got ahold of Odin's original name, and summoned him by it, since he is both Odin and Kringle can he manifest power from either of them? Is it always a package deal that arrives? does using the source being differ from using a minor, but complete in and of itself, mask? ???
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Rasins on July 27, 2017, 07:29:24 PM ---If you'll recall, when Harry summoned Toot-toot in SF, Morgan accused him of violating the law.
Harry loop-holed out of it because Toot wasn't mortal, but he did say that he'd slipped the barest amount of compulsion into the spell.
--- End quote ---
Hmm, he cited both the non-mortal fact and that Toot retained a choice in taking the bargain.
--- Quote --- "Evening, Morgan. You know as well as I do that those laws apply to mortals. Not faeries. Especially for something as trivial as I just did. And I didn't break the Fourth Law. He had the choice whether to take my deal or not."
Morgan's sour, leathery face turned a bit more sour, the lines at the corners of his mouth stretching and becoming deeper. "That's a technicality, Dresden. A pair of them."
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: jonas on July 28, 2017, 08:32:47 AM ---@Quantus, #2Don't we have a woj about if what happened in TC violated any any laws with the Merlins coordination effort and the answer was "we'll find out"?
--- End quote ---
Hmmm, Maaaybe? Doesnt sound familiar offhand and Im not seeing it in the index, but that's not definitive.
--- Quote ---#1I think that might depend on the directness of the link.. thinking of a woj(this one i'm rather certain exists) about if someone tried to control Mab with just that one name, Not having enough leverage. What Harry does to Toot is using his precise unbroken name, same as he latter does calling EK. EK had to know it was a trap, he just couldn't not show up to such a direct link to him. Notice most of the summonings that seem backed by 'choice of answering' are also using incomplete or common names for those things, or just plain asking as Harry seems to in DB of Lea.
--- End quote ---
Agreed. Several times it's less of an actual Summoning and more of just using the True Name to send a magic call. One qualitative difference is that when he calls Toot there is not closed circle yet, and Toot is responsible for getting there under his own Power. By contrast with what Im calling a true summoning, the Circle is a Key part and provides the actual Transportation; There's no other way Mab could have reached the DR summit in CD otherwise.
I think Peabody's book is evidence that summoning such creatures is not itself against the Law, it was too public and too easily recognized. For that matter Harry summoned demons and Loa for info often enough, there was just no thralling subjegation, always contained bargaining.
--- Quote ---What I wonder is if you call on something can more show up? Say, you call Odin, bad idea all around I know, can Kringle also make his power known? Technically different beings, summoning one doesn't necessarily summon the other does it? Now say instead you got ahold of Odin's original name, and summoned him by it, since he is both Odin and Kringle can he manifest power from either of them? Is it always a package deal that arrives? does using the source being differ from using a minor, but complete in and of itself, mask? ???
--- End quote ---
Im guessing that's case-by-case. Mab/Harry needed Vadderung's insight, but Kringle was the easier to reach; but the flip side is a Fae invite might not even reach into an all Steel office(...hey, is that the whole point? A little peace and quiet from his Santa side?). By contrast he used several Names to summon Mother Winter, but she seemed to live a little more of an amalgamated existence than the Mask collection of Vadderung.
Rasins:
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 28, 2017, 12:09:25 PM ---I think Peabody's book is evidence that summoning such creatures is not itself against the Law, it was too public and too easily recognized. For that matter Harry summoned demons and Loa for info often enough, there was just no thralling subjegation, always contained bargaining.
--- End quote ---
I've been wondering about this. Harry Summoned and "trapped" the Erlking in DB.
But when Harry summoned Chauncy and the LOA, when the conversation was done, the one summoned just left. Not through the Circle, but back the way they came. Harry didn't mention anything about releasing them or sending them back, so why couldn't the EK just leave back the way he came.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: Rasins on July 28, 2017, 04:04:53 PM ---I've been wondering about this. Harry Summoned and "trapped" the Erlking in DB.
But when Harry summoned Chauncy and the LOA, when the conversation was done, the one summoned just left. Not through the Circle, but back the way they came. Harry didn't mention anything about releasing them or sending them back, so why couldn't the EK just leave back the way he came.
--- End quote ---
They were just different spells. Summoning Chauncy and the Loa were probably simpler circles -- just Harry's standard summoning circle, meant to call them and to keep them within the circle, but not binding them in place. He went the extra mile with the Erlking's circle to constrain and bind him in place.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 27, 2017, 12:42:07 PM --- The short answer is that she's not Human anymore, she's now both Fae and a mantled Immortal (cell phones and all).
--- End quote ---
Has JB confirmed that?
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