The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Many Questions on Proven Guilty

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dspringer1:
All

I know it has been talked about before, but on many levels Proven Guilty does not make sense.  There seemed no reason for the Fetch to get involved and there are all these mysterious events at Arctus Tor.  Given this story is the prime candidate for the “time travel” experience of Harry, I wanted to poke at it.

Facts
•   “Darby” was booked a year in advance to attend the Con – by his lawyer
•   Madrigal (aka – Darby)’s lawyer/flunky was killed by the Fetch
•   Someone killed a bunch of Mab’s troll guards with Hellfire
•   Lilly and Maeve conspired to lure winter into leaving their borders to allow summer to attack the Red Court
•   Mab allowed Harry to recover Molly
•   A portal exists from the theater to Winter
•   The Fetch took Molly to Arctus Tor
•   Maeve slowed time in Winter so that winter armies would not threaten Summer for sufficient time -- such that Summer could attack the Red Court
•   The Red Court did a major attack on the White Council during the events in Proven Guilty – including targeting Luccio’s boot camp (ie – really important battle)
•   Somebody fixed Little Chicago (although this is more evidence of time travel than something relevant to the questions below)
•   Mab could NOT have sent the fetches to kill people at the con.  She is not allowed to do this due to the rules of Fey Queens.  Either someone else gave the command or the Fetches were killing on their own. 

Reasonably Certain
•   The Fetch killed the lawyer to shut him up because he knew things
•   The fetch knew enough about Molly to trick her into inviting them into the house (not a high threshold, but not complete ignorance)
•   The Fetch attacked the theater owner to keep the theater closed – presumably to allow them to feely use the portal
•   Madrigal was set up for some reason – somebody (- or something ) wanted him at the con
•   Molly did her first Black magic just days (or at most weeks) before the events in Proven Guilty – as she did not discover her friend was pregnant until then.
•   Nik was surprised (and very unhappy) to learn that Denarians were involved in the attack on Arctus Tor
•   The Fetch were involved because of orders from the Queen – but which one is unclear

Decent Guesses
•   Molly’s presence could not have easily been predicted without foreknowledge.  Not assuming foreknowledge as foreknowledge is a boring answer. 
•   The Fetch used the beacon that is Molly’s fear casting to enter the mortal world
•   Harry suggested Madrigal was set up to be the patsy to take the blame.  I would argue that Madrigal was set up to be the beacon.  But since Molly ended up being the beacon, Madrigal was thus unneeded.   
•   Thorned Namshiel was involved in the attack on Arctus Tor
•   Nik is afraid that a fallen is nemfected
•   Maeve might have been nemfected, but not so badly that her actions were highly influenced.
•   The Fetch were there for a reason beyond killing people at a con.  They are both spies and assassins after all.  Neither mission seemed to be relevant to what they did at the con. 


Questions
•   Which queen gave orders to the Fetches – or was the Fetch acting on their own?
•   If Madrigal was set up a year in advance, why.  I cannot have been related to Molly’s use of black magic or the battle with the Red Court as neither could have been reliably predicted a year in advance.    If he was set up from the begining, it had to be for another reason. 
•   Was the portal to winter always in the theater --- or did someone create the portal for this purpose?  The first might suggest a longer term plot while the second might suggest it was created by a Winter queen. 
•   Why did Mab not destroy those who killed her guards?
•   Did slowing time in Winter serve some other (less obvious) purpose?
•   When did Maeve and Lilly learn about the attack on the White Council?   Well in advance or only during the events in Proven Guilty? 
•   What else is going on that might justify time travel? 

robert82a:
Been a while since I've reread Proven Guilty. I don't have any answers, but I rember when the fetch slipped on ice (chapter 29) immediately thinking the fetch might have been infected with Nemesis. The thing lived its whole life in winter. Seemed really weird to me couldn't walk on ice.

Snark Knight:

--- Quote from: dspringer1 on July 24, 2017, 08:47:24 PM ---•   Mab could NOT have sent the fetches to kill people at the con.  She is not allowed to do this due to the rules of Fey Queens.  Either someone else gave the command or the Fetches were killing on their own.

--- End quote ---

She can't command specific deaths. But hypothetically, she could command them to visit the mortal world at a particular time and place, and just rely on their naturally predatory nature to get the job done. Though I tend toward Nemesis as a more likely explanation for the fetches behaviour.



--- Quote from: dspringer1 on July 24, 2017, 08:47:24 PM ---•   The fetch knew enough about Molly to trick her into inviting them into the house (not a high threshold, but not complete ignorance)

--- End quote ---

Actually, no. There's a WOJ that Harry surmised wrong there - Molly didn't invite them in, they just powered through the threshold. Which makes them freaking beastly and/or N-fected.



--- Quote from: dspringer1 on July 24, 2017, 08:47:24 PM ---•   Thorned Namshiel was involved in the attack on Arctus Tor

--- End quote ---

Not that it argues against Namshiel's presence (nothing says only one attacker used Hellfire), but I would note that Rosanna's absence from SG was also quite conspicuous. Also keep in mind Nic's comment in SmF about being sure one of the two women was "our own Judas".

Personally, my theory is Tessa is the ringleader for 1-3 traitor Denarians, but she's succeeded for the time being in framing Rosanna as far as Nic is concerned.

Zaphodess:
A couple of other facts and possibilities:


* PG is the book that led Harry and Eb to conclude that there is a conspiracy behind things.
* Molly was probably set up by Sandra Marling, who organized the con and met her at a shelter where she had to do community work. Sandra suggested to Molly that fear can cure drug addiction. There is room for a long-term plan here.
* Think about how Molly is connected to the guys who are working against people using Hellfire.
* The Fetches are Mab's spies too, not just assassins. Given that Mab can't directly order a human's death, it's possible that they were sent to find facts first. A bit of collateral damage is probably not something Mab worries about.
* Mab couldn't order Molly being killed, so she had to do something else in order to remove the potential danger a warlock daughter of a Fist of God would pose if she got recruited by the opposition. Hence the abduction. When Harry showed up to rescue Molly, Mab could be reasonably sure that he would take steps to turn Molly into an asset. Win-win.
* Mab might not have known yet who exactly was working against her. I personally found PG a lot less confusing once I started to think about Mab's role differently. Harry is assuming she is a puppet-master who always knows exactly how things are going to play out in her favor. If you think of her as being in a corner instead and not knowing everything, her play makes more sense. She had to find out what was going on and who was moving against her.

I also believe that PG was the book where Mab found out that Maeve was Nemfected. She technically betrayed Winter, which she shouldn't have been able to do. Literally.

ETA: The Gatekeeper's note did get Harry on board to help in the fact-finding mission without costing Mab one of the favors.  ;)

wardenferry419:
Mab was using Harry in the WK role since her own WK was useless.

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