The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry should Dark Hallow Demonreach.
Shift8:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on July 21, 2017, 03:52:29 PM ---Yes it does, because that's how evidence-based logic works.
From the sound of it, the only thing you'll accept as evidence is an instance of this specific thing happening, which is faulty at best.
It's like if we were talking about long falls. We're all saying, "Well, I fell 10 feet and I broke my ankle. A guy I know fell 20 feet and broke both legs. Therefore, a fall of 100 feet will do serious damage to you."
Meanwhile, you're saying, "No, you can't take those general things and apply them to the specific problem. You don't know someone who fell from 100 feet specifically, I can argue that you'll be perfectly fine after falling 100 feet."
Let's break it down again: Absorbing power from something else gives you traits of that something else. This is observed several times, across different methods, so we can logically conclude it is just something that happens when you absorb power no matter how you absorb it.
The more powerful the thing you absorb is, the more it will affect you. That's just plain logic.
The Darkhallow is absorbing power en masse.
Ergo, absorbing obscenely powerful things en masse through the Darkhallow is going to affect someone.
Tautologies aren't going to get you anywhere. We're taking the well-established rules of the setting and applying them to the problem. Not "vague generalities." We're providing specific instances of people absorbing power and how it affects them, and you're ignoring the explicit, logical links.
You're the one proposing an idea that runs contrary to what we've observed and been told about the setting by several sources, author included. We shouldn't have to sit here trying to prove that gravity is a thing just because you want to argue that flapping your arms will let you fly.
--- End quote ---
Nope. Thats not how evidence based logic works.
That is about the worst analogy I have ever heard. A long fall for a human has specific and measurable physics to it. And the problems of all falls are the same. Sufficient mass falls a sufficient speed and hits sufficient resistance at the bottom. Given a specific mode landing, we can calculate absolutely the results.
What you are insinuating is more like saying that since combat in war sometimes causes mental trauma, ALL traumatic events what-so-ever will necessarily have the same effect.
Which is absurd.
The only thing the evidence from the books suggests is that sometimes magic can cause ill affects to the user that might affect their demeanor.
But that does not give you carte blanche to apply this concept to every single situation you think it might apply and act as if this somehow dictates it as a certainty. That is absolutely illogical.
All I proposed is that Harry could do the DH, which is not incidentally what you are countering. You are asserting in the positive that doing such a thing would, without a doubt, alter Harry. Prove it. Simple as that. That is on you. I do NOT have to disprove your conjecture. Logic 101. Until you provide absolute proof that doing the DH on DR would, without the shadow of any doubt alter Harry, then your point is MOOT.
Mr. Death:
You're completely misrepresenting my, and everyone else's, arguments.
That's what I mean when I say you're not arguing in good faith. What you just wrote twists my meaning around and calls it absurd.
So far you still have not provided any backing for your claim that Harry would be fine after absorbing, once again, dozens and dozens of dark gods from Demonreach, when the books and WOJ are very clear that absorbing power from any source affects you.
It's clear at this point that no matter what anyone brings against your idea as evidence, you're just going to dismiss it in the same manner.
We've proven our point. That you refuse to accept the evidence does not disprove it.
Shift8:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on July 21, 2017, 04:12:12 PM ---You're completely misrepresenting my, and everyone else's, arguments.
That's what I mean when I say you're not arguing in good faith. What you just wrote twists my meaning around and calls it absurd.
So far you still have not provided any backing for your claim that Harry would be fine after absorbing, once again, dozens and dozens of dark gods from Demonreach, when the books and WOJ are very clear that absorbing power from any source affects you.
It's clear at this point that no matter what anyone brings against your idea as evidence, you're just going to dismiss it in the same manner.
We've proven our point. That you refuse to accept the evidence does not disprove it.
--- End quote ---
Sorry, but I can only represent your argument based on what you type.
I dont have to back that claim. If there is no specific evidence that it would happen, then I can assume it will not. This is how logic works. It is not incumbent upon me to assume things. My assertion is not an assertion. It is the absence of one.
By your own words just now, I must assume the DH will alter Harry unless I prove it wont. Which is crazy.
The assertion is moot. Anything could happen. Harry might not be altered. Or he might be. Or he might die. Who knows. Its one thing entirely to worry about the risk, and another thing entirely to insinuate that everyone else must give in to your assumption just because you said it.
Also thats not how a debate works. Im not obligated to stop dismissing your arguments on account that you can keep making them. Good Grief.
Mr. Death:
No, by my own words, we know that absorbing power affects the person doing the absorbing.
We've seen it happen. We've been told by WOJ that it happens. We've been told by characters that it happens. It happened when Harry absorbs the power of a two-bit sorcerer who's considerably weaker than Harry himself.
You are suggesting that Harry absorb power from dozens, if not hundreds of beings each of whom is individually stronger than Harry by a magnitude and saying that won't affect him.
It's not an "assumption." It's the logical conclusion supported by facts and direct evidence from the books.
It's like you're saying that because you haven't seen direct evidence of someone eating 200 pounds of twinkies, it's only an assumption that they're going to gain weight from it and that "anything might happen."
It is immensely frustrating and frankly insulting when we go through the books, find direct evidence to prove our point, cite WOJ, and you dismiss it with, "Nah, it's just your assumption," when you have done nothing to prove your point except dismiss our arguments.
Shift8:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on July 21, 2017, 04:26:27 PM ---No, by my own words, we know that absorbing power affects the person doing the absorbing.
We've seen it happen. We've been told by WOJ that it happens. We've been told by characters that it happens. It happened when Harry absorbs the power of a two-bit sorcerer who's considerably weaker than Harry himself.
You are suggesting that Harry absorb power from dozens, if not hundreds of beings each of whom is individually stronger than Harry by a magnitude and saying that won't affect him.
It's not an "assumption." It's the logical conclusion supported by facts and direct evidence from the books.
It's like you're saying that because you haven't seen direct evidence of someone eating 200 pounds of twinkies, it's only an assumption that they're going to gain weight from it and that "anything might happen."
It is immensely frustrating and frankly insulting when we go through the books, find direct evidence to prove our point, cite WOJ, and you dismiss it with, "Nah, it's just your assumption," when you have done nothing to prove your point except dismiss our arguments.
--- End quote ---
If you find it insulting that I dont see your point of view, then I cant help you. What is far more frustrating is that you seem to equate your ability to type a post equivalent to proof per se.
Absorbing power is not a monolith. You are assuming its a monolith. We know from the books that not all power absorption's are the same. For example, the WK mantle influences Harry, but it doesn't force him. On the other hand, power gained by becoming a Red Vampire is a complete change of nature that strips the user of free will.
Also lets not forget that Harry got as powerful as he is from his Godmother. And he is still Harry, free to choose. Seemingly with no ill effects at all actually.
And again, bad analogy. You are basically stating that since eating twinkies makes on fat, then the eating of all foods must make one fat. So eating 200 Twinkies is the same as drinking a gallon of water, or eating 200 celery. Just as eating all food is not the same, not all power absorption is the same, and not all methods of power absorption are the same.
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