The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
New Blackstaff discussion
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on July 01, 2017, 08:37:58 PM ---And you do?
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Of course not. I attempt (and fail I'm sure) to talk as someone from the outside looking in. But your comment "The fact he's unopposed to it is the problem, from the point of view of the average White Council member." sounds like you're speaking as an authority on what a council member believes.
--- Quote ---That's really not how people work when they find out about something like that.
Consider when we all that information about the CIA and NSA surveillance was leaked. Was the general reaction, "Well, I'm glad that the NSA is keeping an eye out for security risks!" or was it, "Holy shit, the government is watching us all! This is terrible!"
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Depends who you ask. Some people were paranoid, some people like it because they don't mind giving up privacy (that nobody will pay attention to) with the hope that it can stop major terrorist attacks.
--- Quote ---You're making an assumption about the White Council that just plain runs counter to human nature. Wizards are used to being the most powerful person in the room. Do you really think they're totally OK with someone who has license to wipe them off the map using powers they're not allowed to use?
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Yes because it happens everyday in real life. The Russian people love Putin. Polls have his support as incredibly high in Russia. He worked for the KGB, and is connected to reporters, and political opponents being murdered. If he wants someone dead in that country, they will be. The people still love him though because they think he's got their best interest at heart, and that he wants Russia to be strong again. Doesn't matter if they are right, or wrong, it's what they believe. Do some people fear him? You can be sure, but Russia as a whole loves him.
--- Quote ---The point is the White Council does not know who the Blackstaff is, how he operates, on what basis he picks his targets, or what ethics he has.
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See that's what I'm talking about with you speaking from the perspective of a member of the White Council. We as readers don't know this. If you have WOJ, or in book information that i don't recall I'd like to read it. But I don't recall there ever really being much information about what anyone on the Council knows.
All I know is that Langtry, LtW, Gatekeeper, and Martha Liberty are people with different personalities, and beliefs, highly intelligent, and people of character from what I can tell, and none of them have come out openly about their opposition to the Blackstaff. LtW, Gatekeeper, and Liberty to me are the best examples to me.
--- Quote ---You're speaking from the perspective of knowing the Blackstaff is an extremely honorable, judicious man. The White Council doesn't know that. All they know is that there's someone out there who's allowed to break all the rules they'd be put to death for even skirting.
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His position grants him immunity to the rules only for as long as the Council allows it. That's what I think you're missing. If the majority of Council members felt he was abusing his position, he'd be gone. He's not some god that can just do whatever he wants forever. You can be sure if Langtry thought Eb was abusing his position, he'd need only a few more people to support his position and McCoy would be gone.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: peregrine on July 01, 2017, 01:51:42 AM ---Except it's not about the power he has, it's about the hypocrisy inherent in him existing.
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Hypocrisy is an inescapable, inevitable fact of life, in both the real world and the DV. There's no getting away from it.
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The Merlin is incredibly powerful, people don't mind that so much. But having the Council say "the rules apply to everyone... Except him, he's cool," that people would mind.
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They'd mind...but would they mind enough to matter? Yeah, it would infuriate the naïve idealists, and the young recruits. It would annoy people that somebody else gets to do the Cool Stuff they don't. But that's life, more-or-less.
If they knew that there was some specific thing about the Blackstaff that let him use black magic and get away with it, and that it couldn't be duplicated...well, then he can use it and nobody else can get away with it. Not fair, not pleasant, but anybody who lives for decades, much less centuries, knows that life isn't fair and reality is often unpleasant.
I'm not at all sure that knowledge of the Blackstaff, even in its detail, would split the Council. Not by itself. You might see some apprentices and young bucks scream about fairness and equity, but they have to learn about life's realities sooner or later anyway.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on July 01, 2017, 08:01:47 PM ---The fact he's unopposed to it is the problem, from the point of view of the average White Council member.
"So we're all under threat of instant death if we ever commit one offense against the laws ... except the Merlin's croney, apparently. If he can use it, why can't we?"
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Because he has a blackstaff and you don't, and there's only one and we don't know how to make another.
In fact, if the Council in general knew the details about the position, they'd have to explain about the blackstaff as an item in answer to just that question. Which could lead to all kinds of problems, but would be a good and sufficient answer to the question.
The issue would be whether the explanation would be believed, but there's good reason to think it would be. The Wizards don't have to take the nasty effects of black magic on faith, after all. They have the Sight, and most of them have probably encountered the effects if they've lived very long, esp. involving the First and Fourth Laws. The Wardens most definitely know the effects are real.
So here's Eb (or whoever the current holder is), using black magic on a regular basis and a significant scale and yet he's fairly clearly not warped out of shape in the familiar black magic way. They can look at him with the Sight, or soulgaze him, for evidence that he's not Kemmler II or the Korean Kid on Steroids.
So there's evidence that there's something special at work with the blackstaff.
The real issue about more public knowledge, it seems to me, is Mother Winter. If, as we all seem to be assuming, the blackstaff is her walking stick, it might not do for her to find out who has it.
On the other hand, it always struck me as improbable that she doesn't know who has it.
Zaphodess:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on July 02, 2017, 06:54:21 AM ---Because he has a blackstaff and you don't, and there's only one and we don't know how to make another.
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Aaand being wizards, they won't just accept that answer and rather try to make one for themselves.
Well, maybe the young ones.
I think the WC might handle knowledge about the Blackstaff in a similar way they do knowledge about Wizards Sight. They don't tell the young ones, because that'd be trouble. Once you find out for yourself, you're old and wise enough to handle the information the right way: accept it and shut up about it. Unless with the Sight, there might be very old wizards though who have yet to find out ...
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Zaphodess on July 02, 2017, 07:24:08 AM ---Aaand being wizards, they won't just accept that answer and rather try to make one for themselves.
Well, maybe the young ones.
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They're free to try. In fact, I'm sure Wizards have tried, over the centuries. There's still apparently only one.
Heck, if the theory that the blackstaff is Mother Winter's walking stick is right, then even Mother Winter apparently hasn't been able to get a duplicate. Make of that what you will.
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