The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on June 27, 2017, 05:08:52 PM ---It really, really is not. A sniper is sent to places where there are known or suspected enemies, his orders coming from a chain of command and only allowed to shoot in that specific instance, in that specific space, at that specific time and often, specific people that are pre-approved.
They don't just turn a sniper toward a village and say, "Oh, just blast whoever you think you need to blast and we'll pick you up later." They put him in a place with orders like, "You're waiting for the Grand Generalissississimo. If you have a clean shot, take him out."
The Blackstaff has no orders. He has no real oversight. He has full discretion to do whatever he wants (remember, "What's the point of having a license to ignore the Senior Council if I don't use it?"). He is not sent after a target -- he decides who to kill, when to kill, how to kill, and can do so whenever he wants to.
The comparison you're proposing just does not work. It's like saying a kidnapper is the same as the cop because, hey, they both handcuff people and put them in a locked room.
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Watch this and answer again. Based on true events. "It's your call"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o70G8oZBkHU
Think of who the Wardens go after, and how dangerous they are. If the Blackstaff is involved it's even more dangerous...
Mr. Death:
That Sniper is deployed to a specific area, an active war zone, by a chain of command. He has orders, support and oversight, and if he shoots the wrong person, he's going to be held accountable. The Sniper did not just watch the news one day, decide to head over there, and shoot whoever he decided needed to be shot.
The Blackstaff, however, can and does. He has no oversight from the Senior Council. He can act without any orders at all, and do whatever he sees fit.
Do you really not see the difference here?
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on June 27, 2017, 06:21:58 PM ---That Sniper is deployed to a specific area, an active war zone, by a chain of command.
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The Blackstaff was deployed by a chain of command. The entire world is an active war zone when it comes to the power of an individual wizard.
--- Quote ---He has orders, support and oversight, and if he shoots the wrong person, he's going to be held accountable. The Sniper did not just watch the news one day, decide to head over there, and shoot whoever he decided needed to be shot.
--- End quote ---
You think the Blackstaff isn't? You think he can do anything he wants without consequence? Archangel's don't have that power. Mab doesn't have that power. Why would you think that he has a mantle of power that gives him complete, and total free will to do what he wants without any kind of consequence or punishment? Do you think the White Council would allow him to take out it's own members? What if he started nuking cities around the globe? Think they would stand by and say "Well he's the Blackstaff, can't interfere"
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: groinkick on June 27, 2017, 06:28:06 PM ---The Blackstaff was deployed by a chain of command.
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So we know the Senior Council ordered Ebenezer to kill Ortega? And the Senior Council ordered Ebenezer to unleash the Blackstaff on the people who messed with his wife?
Did the Senior Council order him to Chichen Itza?
--- Quote ---The entire world is an active war zone when it comes to the power of an individual wizard.
--- End quote ---
What does this even mean?
I mean, seriously. "The entire world is an active war zone"? No, no it is not. Especially not during the times when the White Council isn't at war, which makes up 90% of the time we know Ebenezer's been the Blackstaff.
--- Quote ---You think the Blackstaff isn't? You think he can do anything he wants without consequence?
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Well, yes? Because Ebenezer outright says he has the power to ignore the senior council, and we've never once seen or heard of anyone giving him orders that he had to follow, or even following up on the attacks he's made.
The idea that he gets orders he has to follow from a chain of command that has checks and balances to it simply is not presented in the books, and is in fact directly contradicted by Ebenezer himself.
--- Quote ---Archangel's don't have that power. Mab doesn't have that power. Why would you think that he has a mantle of power that gives him complete, and total free will to do what he wants without any kind of consequence or punishment?
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It's not a mantle of power, and it's not at all like either the Archangels or Mab. He's still a man. He has free will. You're mixing up two very different sets of rules and allowances here in a way that is simply not applicable.
--- Quote ---Do you think the White Council would allow him to take out it's own members?
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Both Maggie Sr. and Harry were and are members of the White Council. I.e., the White Council has outright told him to take out its own members.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on June 27, 2017, 06:39:53 PM ---So we know the Senior Council ordered Ebenezer to kill Ortega? And the Senior Council ordered Ebenezer to unleash the Blackstaff on the people who messed with his wife?
Did the Senior Council order him to Chichen Itza?
What does this even mean?
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The Blackstaff is a position created by, and recognized by the White Council, therefor it was deployed by a chain of command. Eb didn't create it himself.
--- Quote ---I mean, seriously. "The entire world is an active war zone"? No, no it is not. Especially not during the times when the White Council isn't at war, which makes up 90% of the time we know Ebenezer's been the Blackstaff.
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A world in which a single wizard can perform a Dark Hallow is a war zone. A single wizard can unleash unimaginable devastation, so yes the entire planet is in fact a war zone where anything can happen and requires someone who can strike at such a threat. I think that is the most difficult thing I'm trying to convey here. In the Dresdenverse it doesn't require a country to unleash nukes. A single individual can unleash incredible devastation, on a global scale. That's why the Blackstaff exists, for those individuals or groups. I don't see anything that points to Eb abusing his power.
--- Quote ---Well, yes? Because Ebenezer outright says he has the power to ignore the senior council, and we've never once seen or heard of anyone giving him orders that he had to follow, or even following up on the attacks he's made.
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Who says the Blackstaff only reports to the White Council? Also, do you think Eb told Harry EVERYTHING about his job? Just because he can ignore the White Council doesn't mean he's not accountable to someone, or should I say something.
--- Quote ---It's not a mantle of power, and it's not at all like either the Archangels or Mab. He's still a man. He has free will. You're mixing up two very different sets of rules and allowances here in a way that is simply not applicable.
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"The Blackstaff chooses the wizard" - Jim. Sounds like a Mantle to me.
--- Quote ---Both Maggie Sr. and Harry were and are members of the White Council. I.e., the White Council has outright told him to take out its own members.
--- End quote ---
Kind of contradicts your statement about a chain of command doesn't it? I wasn't talking about the Council ordering him to take out it's members, I was talking about if for example Eb got tired of Langtry and decided to kill him. Think the others would just stand by except it?
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