The Dresden Files > DF Books
Question about the first law
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Shift8 on July 13, 2017, 09:26:15 PM ---The problem would be the same issue you would have with something like a death note: you'd have almost no way of finding out who dun it. Plus a truly industrious practitioner would just get a large number of the WC's DNA before attacking their real target and off the WC all at once. Surprising this hasn't happened already tbh. Youd think that a bunch of dudes centuries old would have made an enemy by now who would do this. Hell, imagine what would happen if you simply told the WC you had all their blood or something? Just my humble opinion but I really think Jim needs to add something to the story that explains why this hasn't happened already. Some kind of hard counter that is easy to implement or exists all the time. But that is just my two cents.
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It's not a bBlack or White, all or nothing thing like that, not at all. You say it's impossible to figure out who dunnit, but that was the exact plot of the very first book. You say anyone could just round up DNA samples of the whole council and kill them en-masse like it's as easy as flipping a lightswitch, but there ARE quantifiable power requirements and there ARE defenses that increase them dramatically. You say it's surprising it hasnt happened yet, but Changes showed us the sort of scope of spell it would take, and it wasnt small, or cheap. You say that because it seems strong to you Jim needs to alter his setting to nerf it to uselessness, but...huh?
Shift8:
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 14, 2017, 12:51:33 PM ---It's not a bBlack or White, all or nothing thing like that, not at all. You say it's impossible to figure out who dunnit, but that was the exact plot of the very first book. You say anyone could just round up DNA samples of the whole council and kill them en-masse like it's as easy as flipping a lightswitch, but there ARE quantifiable power requirements and there ARE defenses that increase them dramatically. You say it's surprising it hasnt happened yet, but Changes showed us the sort of scope of spell it would take, and it wasnt small, or cheap. You say that because it seems strong to you Jim needs to alter his setting to nerf it to uselessness, but...huh?
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 14, 2017, 12:51:33 PM ---It's not a bBlack or White, all or nothing thing like that, not at all. You say it's impossible to figure out who dunnit, but that was the exact plot of the very first book. You say anyone could just round up DNA samples of the whole council and kill them en-masse like it's as easy as flipping a lightswitch, but there ARE quantifiable power requirements and there ARE defenses that increase them dramatically. You say it's surprising it hasnt happened yet, but Changes showed us the sort of scope of spell it would take, and it wasnt small, or cheap. You say that because it seems strong to you Jim needs to alter his setting to nerf it to uselessness, but...huh?
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Sells was a once off. It would be very hard is most cases.
Power limits would really depend on how many you wanted to kill at once I would imagine, and what kind of spell. Killing off single individuals shouldnt be too much of a problem. Especially over centuries....
The changes spell was a highly specifc form of this. I dont think it makes sense to assume every one of those spells would be like that.
And there is still the bottom line that making it illegal is silly because the only thing that matters is the purpose of the killing. People who have ill intent to break the first law in general are not going to have pause just for theumaturgy, in fact there would be more incentive to use it since its easier to get away with. The penalty for getting caught is the same no matter how they break it.
Additionally the power logic doesnt work because EITHER the spells are so easy to do that its pointless, OR they are so hard to do that they are already sufficiently limited by reality so as to not require additional concern relative to any other form of 1st law breaking.
If it is as Luccio says, and the laws (in particular the 1st) are really just in place to prevent OP wizard meddling, then they are about the stupidest thing in the entire DV from a moral and logical standpoint. And that is not an attack on Jim, but on the WC's logic. Many of the laws for that matter have uses that would probably not be evil. If the WC is running around offing heads just because they want to limit "power" then the WC needs to be annihilated as an organization for the very same purpose they think they are serving. Even without breaking the ANY of the laws, the amount that Wizards could meddle would be astronomical. Its like telling a man with a knife he is free to use the blade, just dont dare ever smack someone with the hilt. Keep the iceburg, just not the tip!
The other problem with this of course is the idea that wizards should not meddle the the first place. There is nothing immoral about using your own power to advance your own interests. Every human being does this. People do it every single day without violating some moral principle. Just because some people would have a bigger advantage than others is entirely immaterial.
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