The Dresden Files > DF Books
Question about the first law
Shift8:
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 10, 2017, 06:48:37 PM ---
Ah, ok, not that deep of a rabbit hole after all. Your argument is well stated, but I fundamentally disagree with your base premise, so I dont think we're going to end up agreeing on that part. :)
Though I will say that is sound like you and Maggie LaFey would have agreed on quite a bit, given the statement that the Laws are Evil unless they address/enforce Morality on the populace.
--- End quote ---
(click to show/hide)I always thought that much, but not all, of what we have learned about Margaret was rather vindicating given my indignation ever since book 1 about the first law. Perhaps I am wrong, but I always had the impression that she is seen in a generally positive light. As was mentioned before, When Luccio was talking to Dresden she more or less admitted that the laws are about power rather than morality.
I dont know if anyone will agree, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the climax of this serious is going to have alot to do with the Laws of magic, Margaret LeFay, and the Outer Gates. Maybe I am just stating the obvious, but I think there is a going to be a massive con-flux of themes here.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Shift8 on July 11, 2017, 02:42:41 AM --- (click to show/hide)I always thought that much, but not all, of what we have learned about Margaret was rather vindicating given my indignation ever since book 1 about the first law. Perhaps I am wrong, but I always had the impression that she is seen in a generally positive light. As was mentioned before, When Luccio was talking to Dresden she more or less admitted that the laws are about power rather than morality.
--- End quote ---
I think that's a bit of a stretch. (click to show/hide)Just because her stance might arguably have some merit doesnt mean that it had majority support. According to both Luccio and to McCoy those were fringe views that eventually led her to being a Fugitive, a Lawbreaker, and a consort of Monsters. That doesnt really say "generally positive Light" to me.
Romulan Cmdr:
The 7 laws are to limit Wizards to a point that things to not devolve into a magical power fight where people are using black magic to gain power over all else.
So, if you kill a human with magic you are setting up a level where you focus on killing magic, that leads to black magics that are very effective at killing people, and roll down the hill we go.
If you go thru each law, it basically boils down into preventing something that leads to black magic or another similar issue 'end of life as we know it'.
Ethics and morality dont go into it because everyone's thoughts on where the line is drawn between right, wrong and acceptable exceptions is different.
Shift8:
--- Quote from: Romulan Cmdr on July 11, 2017, 10:59:14 PM ---The 7 laws are to limit Wizards to a point that things to not devolve into a magical power fight where people are using black magic to gain power over all else.
So, if you kill a human with magic you are setting up a level where you focus on killing magic, that leads to black magics that are very effective at killing people, and roll down the hill we go.
If you go thru each law, it basically boils down into preventing something that leads to black magic or another similar issue 'end of life as we know it'.
Ethics and morality dont go into it because everyone's thoughts on where the line is drawn between right, wrong and acceptable exceptions is different.
--- End quote ---
Power limitation may very well be the WC's intent, but thats not a good reason for the first law. Not only does it not achieve its goal, its arbitrary.
Side note: everyones opinion regarding practicalities can also be different. Not just moral issues.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Shift8 on July 11, 2017, 11:05:21 PM ---Power limitation may very well be the WC's intent, but thats not a good reason for the first law. Not only does it not achieve its goal, its arbitrary.
Side note: everyones opinion regarding practicalities can also be different. Not just moral issues.
--- End quote ---
If it we were just talking about Evocation Id agree with you, killing with a grenade or a fireball doesnt seem any different. But Thaumaturgy is a hole other story. You can kill anyone in the world from anywhere in the world with nothing more than a Name or even a good picture (I swear I recall this mentioned in an early book but Im still looking for the exact quote) though actual hair or blood obviously work better. Thaumaturgic assassination unchecked is basically Death Note.
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