A quick question regarding Grapple

[Jabberwocky]

Gentlemen, I have a question regarding the grappling rules. As a supplemental action the grappler is allowed to make an unopposed manoeuvre and place a temporary 1-shift aspect on his opponent. Is it possible to tag this aspect in the same round for maintaining the grapple? According to RAW it seems to me that it is possible – the supplemental action goes first. On the other hand this makes the "not doing anything, concentrating on the grapple" option useless. If the grappler doesn't use the supplemetal action he gets +0 for maintaining the grapple. If he does the supplemental action manoeuvre, he gets -1 on the subsequent roll but also a +2 for tagging the aspect, which makes a +1 at the end. Thank you for your thoughts.

[Taran]

Huh, I thought it was pretty explicit:  the maneuver only comes into play in the next exchange...but

you can automatically
choose to inflict a one-shift hit to the
target, drag the target with you one zone, or
inflict a maneuver (like Tangled Up), and then
you must roll the grapple at –1 (the other action
you take is considered supplementary because it
doesn’t require a roll).
Finally, you can also

By that description, you create a maneuver and THEN you do roll the block.  Which means you've already got an aspect ready to go.  It doesn't really say in the example.  The Thug PINS Harry, then rolls a Fair +2 block.  It never mentions tagging the PINNED aspect.

I actually like it.  In light of this, I'd allow the tag.  Since you have to take a -1, you're not getting a full value for your tag anyways.  The reason I'd allow this is because not everyone plays grapples the same.

If it were me GMing, I might not allow it.  By my reading of the Grapple rules, any successful overcome does not break the grapple.  I, typically, make anyone caught in a grapple have to burn an action trying to get out of it.  They HAVE to do an action that would be something that would reasonably break a grapple.  An attack action targeting the grappler, an intimidation maneuver targeted at the grappler, an athletics maneuver to SQUIRM away etc...

If the target cannot beat
the block strength of the grapple, it’s assumed
that the grappler is still holding onto him,
giving the grappler his entire set of supplementary
options next round. If the target beats the
grapple strength, however, the action succeeds.
Additionally, if the action is something that
could reasonably break the grapple—an attack,
a spell, even a threatening look—the grapple is
automatically “released.”

So, to me, successfully shooting another target (other than the grappler), for example, will not break the grapple.  Therefore the grappler gets a chance to use his fancy Aspect in the next turn.

Lots of people treat grapple blocks exactly the same as a regular block.  IE:  if any action overcomes the block, the grapple is broken.  Interpreted this way, you almost never get to take advantage of the special actions in a grapple.  At least, not in my experience - and I like playing grapplers.  If this is how your GM runs it, then I'd allow the grappler to tag the aspect immediately.

Edit:  either way, I think I'd allow it.  Grapples take lots of time to set up.

[Jabberwocky]

Thank you, Taran.

If this is how your GM runs it, then I'd allow the grappler to tag the aspect immediately.

I'm the GM and I'm considering options for both the PCs and the NPCs. I'm not quite sure whether the immediate tag wouldn't somehow damage the balance. On the other hand, maintaing a grapple might be considered to be easier than establishing it so that immediate tag would make some sense. The problem is that the DFRPG rules aren't completely bug-free so this interperation might be a glitch, with something like "in the subsequent exchange" omitted.

[Taran]

I don't find grapples to be that powerful, really.  They block all actions but can be broken by using any apex skill.  They also take an action to maintain every exchange.  They are best used against really fast opponents - if you're trying to keep them from running away.

Or against ranged attacker who might have a speed power or flight.  Those annoying people who moves 2 zones for free, then shoot you.  Essentially, it lets you block their movement and their attacks simultaneously, whereas, in most situations, you can only block one or the other.  But those people are best equipped to get out of a grapple:  athletics at +1 or +2 because of speed powers.  (FYI, I've learned to hate speed powers)

Remember:
round 1: do a maneuver (chance to fail)
round 2: tag maneuver, do a block/grapple (chance for them to get away)
round 3: do a supplemental + block

So, it's not until round 3 that you get to use the supplemental.  And they have 2 opportunities to get away and then you have to start all over.

Think about what you could do in 3 exchanges of combat.  That maneuver you tagged to initiate a grapple doesn't even give you any bonuses.  If you weren't going to grapple, you could have used this as a +2 to any of your actions.  This is why I like to be more strict on what it takes to get out of a grapple.  And also why I like the idea of being able to tag that maneuver right away.  If you don't let them tag it right away, they don't get to take advantage until the 4th round since you initiated the grapple.  Or let an ally tag it, I suppose.

Granted, the block is still useful in the mean-time, but all those nifty grapple rules almost never come into play because, chances are, the person has escaped before  you get a chance to implement them.

edit:  and really, if you've successfully PINNED someone, it should be harder to get out instead of easier.

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks, Taran. You're right. It probably isn't a big deal either way.