Stunt usage

[blackstaff67]

Given the Paranet Papers on how Debt can be accrued with Sponsored Magic (at least for the Winter Knight):
Would people allow a player with Sponsored Magic to take a point of Debt to Declare he has a particular Stunt? 

[dragoonbuster]

No.

Not unless it was a situation equivalent to when you might take up Temporary Powers, dramatic, and really made sense. Otherwise it's too easily abused.

[Haru]

My opinion, though not informed by the Paranet Papers as I haven't gotten them.

"Having" a stunt, as in it is from now on on his character sheet, a definite no.

As a one time deal? That's basically like spending a fate point on an appropriate aspect, only you pay for it later through debt rather than getting it by a compel. That seems fine.

I could even see getting a stunt temporarily as per the temporary upgrades rules, only again paid with debt instead of a fate point. I wouldn't allow this as a regular thing, though.

Then again, instead of all that, all that might be needed is a skill replacement spell, that allows you to do something at a greater skill level than you otherwise would.

Lastly, the stunt in question would obviously need to fit the sponsor in some way, and it should make sense that it is somehow transferable.

[Kennifus Prime]

I agree with Haru. If it is a one-time use of the Stunt and fits the flavor of the Sponsor / is being used to further the Sponsor's goals, I'd likely allow it.

If they're wanting to accrue a point of Debt to permanently gain a Stunt I'd say no way.

Also, @Haru, I'm curious about "Temporary Upgrade". I don't recall that. Is it something from FATE Core?

[blackstaff67]

I agree with Haru. If it is a one-time use of the Stunt and fits the flavor of the Sponsor / is being used to further the Sponsor's goals, I'd likely allow it.

If they're wanting to accrue a point of Debt to permanently gain a Stunt I'd say no way.

Also, @Haru, I'm curious about "Temporary Upgrade". I don't recall that. Is it something from FATE Core?

Yeah, I should've clarified things a wee bit.  For all intents and purposes, the "Stunt" in question wold only be for that particular scene and would disappear when that scene is ended.  Debt is still acquired and the scales balance out.

[Haru]

Also, @Haru, I'm curious about "Temporary Upgrade". I don't recall that. Is it something from FATE Core?

It's part of the "mid session power upgrades" rules. There's a yellow box on page 92 in Your Story called "Temporary Powers".

Reading through it again, it even talks about that the player can owe the GM compels, if he doesn't have enough to pay for the temporary upgrades. Wrapping those into a theme of sponsor debt would therefor work rather nicely.

[Taran]

I'd say yes, but I'd be very careful.

Stunts are used for skill swaps:  use Endurance to defend against mental attacks; Use conviction to defend against physical attacks etc...

So a player can use a point of sponsored debt to turn a useless skill into an apex skill.  That said, Guide My Hand, with the cost of a FP lets you do exactly that(by letting conviction replace any skill).  So, in a sense, you're just doing it without the FP and using debt instead.

It makes me think, though, that having a Power like Guide My Hand would justify this kind of use for sponsored debt.  But, I think, that just goes back to what everyone else was saying: the stunt must be in line with the flavour/theme/agenda of the Sponsor.

[Haru]

Stunts are used for skill swaps:

An evothaum skill replacement spell will get you roughly the same (or better) for no cost at all with the option of boosting it with debt or fate points.

[Taran]

An evothaum skill replacement spell will get you roughly the same (or better) for no cost at all with the option of boosting it with debt or fate points.

I agree, but you spend 2-3 refresh for that privilege. and, for the most part, Skill replacement spells only last for a SINGLE roll.  Guide My Hand allows skill replacement for the cost of a FP and it, too, only lasts for one single roll.

But if you have an aspect related to a sponsor and no power to back it up, I think you should be careful what you allow.

Temporary Power rules give you a 'power' for a whole scene.

A FP can add +2 to a skill.

If you have +0 to a skill, adding an extra +2 by invoking an aspect might be great for a single roll...but if you use that same FP to buy a skill replacement stunt to give you +5 to a skill for an entire scene that's WAY better.  That's way more useful than a single skill replacement Spell.

[Haru]

That's certainly true. But I thought we were already talking about someone with sponsored magic, so the refresh is already spent.

In any case, if a character is built on "I just switch out my stuff as I need it", there are better ways to do that. And if a player would start doing that with the temporary upgrade rule, I would definitely talk with him about redoing his character that way.

[Kennifus Prime]

It's part of the "mid session power upgrades" rules. There's a yellow box on page 92 in Your Story called "Temporary Powers".

Reading through it again, it even talks about that the player can owe the GM compels, if he doesn't have enough to pay for the temporary upgrades. Wrapping those into a theme of sponsor debt would therefor work rather nicely.

Wow, so it is. This is really cool stuff. Thanks!

[Taran]

In any case, if a character is built on "I just switch out my stuff as I need it", there are better ways to do that. And if a player would start doing that with the temporary upgrade rule, I would definitely talk with him about redoing his character that way.

I'm not arguing with you - I totally agree with you.  I'm simply pointing out the ways sponsored debt/stunts can be abused and how they can be abused.  Which might be the reason why Dragoonbuster was saying he'd be hesitant to allow it.

[dragoonbuster]

Which might be the reason why Dragoonbuster was saying he'd be hesitant to allow it.

Yep

[Haru]

I'm not arguing with you

Sorry, I was kind of in arguing mode from another discussion.