Other Jimness > Cinder Spires Spoilers

Should I feel offended?

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Dina:
I didn't realize they were depicted as more racist than others, in fact apparently Aurorans are more racist against warriorborns than Albionites. But even accepting it, yes, would they be right in be offended? Again, I don't want to discuss particularities, only if people should be offended by characters opinions, basically.

Roverbey:

--- Quote from: Dina on October 26, 2015, 01:39:20 AM ---I didn't realize they were depicted as more racist than others, in fact apparently Aurorans are more racist against warriorborns than Albionites. But even accepting it, yes, would they be right in be offended? Again, I don't want to discuss particularities, only if people should be offended by characters opinions, basically.

--- End quote ---
In my opinion at least, the only reason someone should feel offended by what opinions are expressed by characters in a story is if you believe that the author is championing them as the "correct" view.  Jim seems to be giving us characters that are consistent with the society that they come from.

Tsunami:
General Stuff
I don't think the reader should take the characters' opinions to heart so much.
As long as the characters are working as characters and not just as vehicles for the author's opinions.
In Windlass, and indeed all of Butcher's work i have read, the characters and their viewpoints are diverse and believable enough to stand on their own and make sense inside the story world.

A little Detail
We have seen assholes among the Albions as well as the Aurorans, and we have also seen honorable folk among both. Also, i think it works in the setting for the characters to be somewhat bigoted. Apparently most people in the spires never even leave their home habble. Even less people would be leaving their home spire, resulting in highly insular cultures in the spires.
And then there's the fact that we are seeing that world mostly through soldiers eyes in wartime... no wonder that we are dealing with a certain amount of prejudice.

To sum up again: No i don't think one should be offended in general. And also not in this particular case.

wyltok:

--- Quote from: Dina on October 25, 2015, 04:51:51 AM ---That said, the point of the thread was not so much about my particular case with this book but about discussing if someone should be offended for the points of view of characters in a book, even if they are the main characters.
--- End quote ---

My general thoughts: Jim has made it quite clear that his intention when writing is to evoke emotional responses in his readers. In fact, to quote the man himself:


--- Quote from: 2012 JimButcher AMA Reddit Q&A ---I tell giant, complicated, long-term LIES for a living, man. People pay me to manipulate their emotions--to make them laugh and cry, to cheer for the good guys and to hate the bad guys.
--- End quote ---

On the one hand, the fact that your husband is reacting emotionally to Jim's writing could be seen as a positive. On the other hand, the fact that it makes it harder for him to "cheer for the good guys" makes it a negative.

In and of itself, I would say it's OK to be offended by a main character's negative traits. What I consider more important, however, is how one chooses to act after taking offense. And before making the decision of how to react, I would recommend taking a moment to try to figure out why the author made his main character(s) offensive.

If, for example, the cause of offense seems to stem from the author's own prejudice, I could see how reading the remainder of the book could be problematic; such an author is unlikely to change the character's behavior, taking away from the reader's empathy for the nominal good guys. As others have mentioned, there's also the possibility of the author being driven by a desire for verisimilitude: if people have historically reacted in an offensive way, having the characters not react that way runs the risk of breaking the audience's willing suspension of disbelief.

Given such circumstances, dropping the book could be considered a reasonable choice - why read something you won't enjoy? On the other hand, I've always enjoyed the argument that fiction should not only entertain, but also educate. Personally, I could see myself still reading a book even if I find the protagonist(s) offensive, specifically to teach myself to better empathize with people I don't agree with. It's always easiest, after all, to appreciate people who think like us.

There's a third possibility, namely that the author intends to address this offensive quality, and so, needs to first establish it, in order to incorporate it in the protagonist's character arc. I suspect that's the direction Jim is going with the racism. In such a case, denying oneself the opportunity to see how the situation will evolve would be a disservice to both the author and the reader.

TL,DR: I believe one is entitled to feel offended by a fictional character's actions  or views(fiction, after all, is about evoking emotional responses), particularly if the guilty party is a protagonist, but I don't believe taking offense would be reason enough to stop me from reading a story.

Rygar:
I'd have to reread while specifically looking for this, but I remember the Aurorans themselves as being potrayed well.  Their government was depicted as corrupt and generally bad, yes, but I don't think any scenes involving the Espira and his men left me thinking of them as anything other than professionals operating at cross purposes to the protagonists. 

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