The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Doylist analysis of the Scooby Gang at the climax of Cold Days
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Arjan on July 25, 2015, 04:39:48 AM ---It was the price Harry had to pay for his secrecy. He did not warn anyone for the coming storm so they where all collected easily. It also showed how far gone Maeve was, her redcap kidnapped Mac from accorded neutral territory.
But not out of character for cold days Harry, like so many things that happened in that book. Harry had the opportunity to warn everybody but he did not do so. They were taken unaware.Sarissa does not seem to lie like a mortal. I think everything she says is true in the fae sense.Harry became more paranoid, partly because of the mantle I think.
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This is a Doylist argument, not a Watsonian. I'm saying JB could have done more believable things to get the others there, but there was no reason to take Mac other than "I suddenly don't trust anyone".
JB had Harry play the distrust card for a reason. Maybe it was just the simplest way to get the others there, but the ways I proposed make more sense. So the Doylist question is, did he choose that method just to have an excuse to take Mac? And why did he want to have Mac there? What relevance was his participation?
There's no reason to take him, other than to establish that Mab was nice to him, that he had a healing factor of some sort, and for us to see him on the island.
Mab being nice was interesting, but could have waited until SG, when she arrived in the pub with Harry for the meeting. The whole " flatterer" thing could have been the reveal, rather than the bullet on the island.
The healing factor could have been revealed in the pub in Cold Days, too. No need for him to traipse off to the island, when JB could have had him knocked out after the confrontation with Before. Harry or Thomas could have checked on him, and noted that he healed up.
The unique factor wasn't healing or seeing him with Mab. That makes the unique thing getting him on the island.
So how is Mac relevant to the island? That's the question.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on July 25, 2015, 05:02:21 AM ---This is a Doylist argument, not a Watsonian. I'm saying JB could have done more believable things to get the others there, but there was no reason to take Mac other than "I suddenly don't trust anyone".
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It is a very watsonian argument. Murphy could have made it. There are a lot of ways the mantles influence and winter influence in general showed itself in cold days Harry. His paranoia towards Mac was one of them.
Unless you rephrase it as Jim wanted to show us the mantles influence on Harry.....
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Arjan on July 25, 2015, 05:25:35 AM ---It is a very watsonian argument. Murphy could have made it. There are a lot of ways the mantles influence and winter influence in general showed itself in cold days Harry. His paranoia towards Mac was one of them.
Unless you rephrase it as Jim wanted to show us the mantles influence on Harry.....
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Are we talking about the same thing? This thread is theorizing as to why JB included Mac with the others, and why his presence was necessary.
I don't think "Because I want to show that Harry is now a distrustful asshole that endangers innocents" was his motivation. If it had, then he would have one of the others throw it in Harry's face.
megarows:
--- Quote from: wizard nelson on July 25, 2015, 03:54:57 AM ---Well, in the version I read mordred tricked him and stole it so aurther plunged the lance of Longinus into it. Morgana was there to heal him, though responsible in ways, because it addressed a rebalance and it was her duty, somehow related to her Wiccan position(one queen for each direction)
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That... sounds different from what I read. What source is that from? Also where did the Lance of Longinus come from? Arthur's spear is Rhongomyniad. (scroll down)
wizard nelson:
--- Quote from: megarows on July 25, 2015, 06:17:39 AM ---That... sounds different from what I read. What source is that from? Also where did the Lance of Longinus come from? Arthur's spear is Rhongomyniad. (scroll down)
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I said it in one of my first posts. Book called Lancelot du Lethe. Lancelot was gifted the lance by Mars smetrius his war master(also literally Mars, red God of war) and eventually aurther had it at the final battle. Merlin told him to seek out the relics of Christ as the old powers were no longer secure.(it's a romanticized version, emphasizing the love triangle and why lance and gywn did their side)
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