The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
Argonometra:
--- Quote from: megarows on June 30, 2015, 08:45:59 PM ---So what's Butcher's point with the fae mantles, anyway? That weather systems didn't exist before knife-murdering and black magic ascention rituals?
--- End quote ---
The Fae embody dual themes: that of the seasons and that of civilization (or lack thereof). In addition to the ice-and-snow thing, the WK is wrath, the WQ is pragmatism, the WM is fear.
Originally, Hecate was the manifestation of these things- but by overpowering her and killing her, the Fae proved themselves worthy to uphold what she represented. Worthier than Hecate.
wizard nelson:
--- Quote ---Mother Winter isn't TWG, just a human hopped up on ascension ritual meth. She has difficulty traveling spatially, and we saw in GS that souls don't just warp to her. So I don't think she has dominion over that kind of thing on a cosmic scale.]
--- End quote ---
We have Woj MW is the original, from the beginning thing, she was never a human like MS. and your right she doesn't have the power to just rip the soul out of anything, anymore. Cause that's what her walking stick does now ::) , funny with it she could also travel just about anywhere meaning nothing was beyond her reach. Now she's stuck in the NN but it don't mean her power much changed.
twg collects souls of believers and banishes to hell non-believers(though technically its people who believe but are evil, cause otherwise said soul would go elsewhere anyway, like if they believed in hades instead.) MW as 'baba yaga' literally ate their immortal flesh, that's why she's so beast in the first place. going outside would only be a step for humans if they believed in no sort of afterlife at all or were directly displaced by cosmic scale forces, like 'true death' e.g. MW eating your scrawny wizard ass.
(oh and Michael gave him a true death because he used the sword to do it, remember later Bob isn't sure if it could have killed a summoned demon on earth, but admits its possible based on faith, but they weren't as far as we know because A dragon on earth would dictate a new reality around itself on a comsic scale much as MW would, so if they were in the NN where its far more likely to have killed it outright. especially if the place in question was sithro's place of power either there or here on earth if he only 'put his toe in the sandbox')
peregrine:
The fact that MW is the first MW doesn't mean she was never a human. We don't know what she was before she became MW, and Mab said she was mortal, it's possible, even likely, that MW was one as well.
megarows:
--- Quote from: Argonometra on June 30, 2015, 11:15:02 PM ---The Fae embody dual themes: that of the seasons and that of civilization (or lack thereof). In addition to the ice-and-snow thing, the WK is wrath, the WQ is pragmatism, the WM is fear.
Originally, Hecate was the manifestation of these things- but by overpowering her and killing her, the Fae proved themselves worthy to uphold what she represented. Worthier than Hecate.
--- End quote ---
Disagree on some of the cause/effect here. Originally Hecate was a greedy and insane human who gained power via human sacrifice in ascention rituals. She manifested nothing other than hubris. The universe didn't coalesce an avatar into Hecate, she was just crazy and murdered a lot of people.
No entity with a mantle created from human sacrifice -- as they all seem to be -- is absolutely anything at all. They are artificial, synthetic. They may claim to be otherwise, but so did the Gao'uld in Stargate.
Yet we see the fae queens / balance does have an effect on the natural world. So we have humans who have stolen power via human sacrifice insinuating themselves into the natural order, such that they can break shit in fundamental ways. I just don't know how that could ever possibly be a good thing, especially when the mantle's power is probably finite.
Remember Mia's speech to Susannah at Castle Discordia in "The Dark Tower"? That.
Argonometra:
--- Quote from: megarows on July 01, 2015, 01:12:08 AM ---So we have humans who have stolen power via human sacrifice insinuating themselves into the natural order
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If CD was any indication, we need to worry about the opposite. Harry struggles against the Winter Mantle (the 'natural order' personified) urging him to rape and kill. When Mab shows humanity, it is a rare and unnerving thing. The Summer Mantle overwhelms Lily, making her burn the landscape and attack indiscriminately- making her threaten the man her human side loves.
Nature is not the one being (ab)used here. It may not initiate Table rituals, but it certainly dominates their participants.
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