The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
The Fourth Holy Sword
Griffyn612:
The Spear of Longinus seems more eligible to be the "sword" of the fifth archangel.
Eldest Gruff:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on April 17, 2015, 04:23:15 PM ---The Spear of Longinus seems more eligible to be the "sword" of the fifth archangel.
--- End quote ---
Considering what it did that's not half bad. Longinus however is a Saint. So was he using Lucifer's blade as an act of murder, perhaps in order to 'unmake' the blade? My guess is that blades associated with the angels don't turn or 'Fall' with their respective patrons since Amoracchius still worked when Uriel didn't have his Grace. But the spear still has power...did he 'unmake' it one way in order to give it new purpose and meaning?
Or if it was simply a human act of mercy (debatable but his being venerated to sainthood means many don't view his actions as 'sinister') that created the importance surrounding the blade and it has no tie to Big Lucy.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Eldest Gruff on April 17, 2015, 05:12:11 PM ---Considering what it did that's not half bad. Longinus however is a Saint. So was he using Lucifer's blade as an act of murder, perhaps in order to 'unmake' the blade? My guess is that blades associated with the angels don't turn or 'Fall' with their respective patrons since Amoracchius still worked when Uriel didn't have his Grace. But the spear still has power...did he 'unmake' it one way in order to give it new purpose and meaning?
Or if it was simply a human act of mercy (debatable but his being venerated to sainthood means many don't view his actions as 'sinister') that created the importance surrounding the blade and it has no tie to Big Lucy.
--- End quote ---
The Longinus tale is very warped. The earliest mention of him was that he was mauled by a lion nightly as punishment for what he did. Later stories say he converted to Christianity, and his action was excused as a mercy.
As for the Dresdenverse, there's clearly something planned for it. A very long time ago (well before SKIN GAME) I proposed that Nico would eventually show up with an Unholy Sword, consisting of a blade with the Longinus spearhead worked into it, just like the nails have been worked into the Holy Swords. I think I called it Timoracchius, with the root being "Fear". So the sword he places it in would be the sword sponsored by Luci, if he gets to do that, and the spear would then be an enhancer like the nails were to the original Holy Swords that became the Swords of the Cross.
Eldest Gruff:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on April 17, 2015, 05:39:08 PM ---The Longinus tale is very warped. The earliest mention of him was that he was mauled by a lion nightly as punishment for what he did. Later stories say he converted to Christianity, and his action was excused as a mercy.
As for the Dresdenverse, there's clearly something planned for it. A very long time ago (well before SKIN GAME) I proposed that Nico would eventually show up with an Unholy Sword, consisting of a blade with the Longinus spearhead worked into it, just like the nails have been worked into the Holy Swords. I think I called it Timoracchius, with the root being "Fear". So the sword he places it in would be the sword sponsored by Luci, if he gets to do that, and the spear would then be an enhancer like the nails were to the original Holy Swords that became the Swords of the Cross.
--- End quote ---
Interesting. But why use the spear as the enhancer rather than enhance itself? I mean it is a blade after all. A blade enhancing another blade its like piling the three Swords of the Cross together and making a 'super sword'. But since we know their power derives from the nails, and the Spear most likely like all the other artifacts doesn't have any outside 'attachment' to power it besides the faith, (and maybe the blood), I guess I could see why you would posit using it as an attachment.
But if Lucifer had a blade, then its already out there somewhere. And since we know also the power doesn't come from the archangels themselves but they might 'oversee' one apiece, it would still ultimately be taking a holy sword, adding another holy artifact to it...and then using it for evil. Which would probably just 'unmake' or otherwise cause them to become ineffective...at least it would for the sword itself. I suppose that means you would view the Spear as not altogether 'good' just, important and powerful...the Grail for example has something more clear cut when it comes to 'positive' connections.
Which means Lucifer would have to sponsor an already 'evil' blade and either funnel his own power into it, (a la the One Ring), or use the Spear to give it that extra something. Unless he can fundamentally change the aspects of his original blade somehow.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Eldest Gruff on April 17, 2015, 05:52:41 PM ---Interesting. But why use the spear as the enhancer rather than enhance itself? I mean it is a blade after all. A blade enhancing another blade its like piling the three Swords of the Cross together and making a 'super sword'. But since we know their power derives from the nails, and the Spear most likely like all the other artifacts doesn't have any outside 'attachment' to power it besides the faith, (and maybe the blood), I guess I could see why you would posit using it as an attachment.
But if Lucifer had a blade, then its already out there somewhere. And since we know also the power doesn't come from the archangels themselves but they might 'oversee' one apiece, it would still ultimately be taking a holy sword, adding another holy artifact to it...and then using it for evil. Which would probably just 'unmake' or otherwise cause them to become ineffective...at least it would for the sword itself. I suppose that means you would view the Spear as not altogether 'good' just, important and powerful...the Grail for example has something more clear cut when it comes to 'positive' connections.
Which means Lucifer would have to sponsor an already 'evil' blade and either funnel his own power into it, (a la the One Ring), or use the Spear to give it that extra something. Unless he can fundamentally change the aspects of his original blade somehow.
--- End quote ---
Don't forget that Amoracchius, Fidelacchius, and Esperacchius all existed before the nails. They were all Holy Swords going by different names prior to having the nails being put in to enhance their power and grant them the moniker "Sword of the Cross".
Whether Luci has a sword or not is highly questionable. The swords, prior to the crucifixion, seem to have been tools for good in the world. But if Luci was locked up before the swords were originally crafted, then he might not have had one. Or there may be a loophole that let him make one too, after seeing that the others did. Maybe all five have the ability to empower a single weapon to embody their will, but only three have received power boosts from the crucifixion. The other two are still floating around, one being broken with no active archangel to oversee it, and the other being used for unholy and nefarious means.
As for the spearhead being the sword itself, I think it would be hard for a pre-existing sword of Luci's to be cast as a spearhead and then used in that fashion. Seems more likely that it was a simply spearhead, just like the nails were simple nails, until they all played their role. The nails combined with the Holy Swords made good Swords of the Cross, emphasizing Jesus' sacrifice rather than his murder.
If the spearhead were incorporated into an Unholy Sword sponsored by Luci, then it would presumably emphasize the murder rather than the sacrifice, and become and Unholy Sword of the Crucifixion.
A that point, Raphael would really need to get off his butt, get the broken sword, get it repaired, and incorporate the thorns from the Crown into it somehow.
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