The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Who Attacked Arctis Tor, and Why
Eldest Gruff:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on February 26, 2015, 08:48:02 PM ---So you reckon he's summonable by Mab because of having Kringle in his magic pocket even when he's not active as Kringle ?
I incline to think not, but without any solid argument. Only thing I can think of that might be related is Harry trying to summon the Nightmare in GP without having exactly the right name but being able to get it anyway, but then at that point the Nightmare has goodly chunks of several people's souls including Harry's own, and it's ages since I've read that bit.
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I just think it would entirely fly in the face of what we currently know mantles to be, admittedly incomplete thou it is, that he can just set it aside here and there. Now suppressing it or having another source of primary power on top of it that you can go to sure. Kinda like when Harry uses soulfire...its an alternative source of power separate and apart from his mantle or his original base of magic. Not always used, not always necessary but always THERE.
If the Kringle mantle could be 'set aside' then the same rule as Vadderung could apply, Mab summons him and he shrugs saying 'i'm not Kringle today, try again later.' and then what good does that do anyone?
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Eldest Gruff on February 26, 2015, 08:53:24 PM ---I just think it would entirely fly in the face of what we currently know mantles to be, admittedly incomplete thou it is, that he can just set it aside here and there.
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In a sense of power, yes. But in a sense of identity, I think the scale of difference is not dissimilar to Harry being extended invitations as "Harry Dresden, Winter Knight" or "Harry Dresden, Warden of the White Council"; it seems clearly in earlier books that him being in certain situations as Emissary of Winter has different significance to him being there when invited as a Council member though he does not stop being a Council member while he is Emissary.
--- Quote ---If the Kringle mantle could be 'set aside' then the same rule as Vadderung could apply, Mab summons him and he shrugs saying 'i'm not Kringle today, try again later.' and then what good does that do anyone?
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I'm not seeing that a way to have a smart and powerful and really dangerous player on your side when he wants to be is particularly less useful than a way of calling him to your side whether he wants to be or not, whether it antagonises him or not.
Lawgiver:
--- Quote from: Arjan on February 26, 2015, 08:12:51 PM ---The right to summon seems to me as an obligation to come.
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I think compulsion more than just obligation. "Right" means a power to act without "let" or permission. None can stop you or interfere. If Mab has a "right" it cannot be gainsaid by anyone, least of all the one she is calling.
Lawgiver:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on February 26, 2015, 09:01:28 PM ---In a sense of power, yes. But in a sense of identity, I think the scale of difference is not dissimilar to Harry being extended invitations as "Harry Dresden, Winter Knight" or "Harry Dresden, Warden of the White Council"; it seems clearly in earlier books that him being in certain situations as Emissary of Winter has different significance to him being there when invited as a Council member though he does not stop being a Council member while he is Emissary.
I'm not seeing that a way to have a smart and powerful and really dangerous player on your side when he wants to be is particularly less useful than a way of calling him to your side whether he wants to be or not, whether it antagonises him or not.
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Odin's motive for attaining and maintaining the Kringle mantle is secondary, I think, to how it's used in the context of the story at that point. Mab needed Harry to have certain information and/or "connections"/"assistance". Odin/Kringle had what was needed, but the Odin portion might be disinclined to "share" without some sort of recompense/deal being struck. The Kringle portion, as Mab's subject, would have no choice but to obey his liege. Mab's selection of using Kringle instead of Odin to provide the necessary bypassed Odin's predilection for "doing business" and went straight to "obey me" and everybody's happy... Harry gets what he needs, Mab exercises her "right" without issue/resistance and Odin can both discharge his Kringle-Mantle duty to Mab and support Harry's cause to his own benefit without the works getting mucked up over "jurisdictional" issues among "Powers". Win-Win all around and tidily done.
raidem:
Agreed. There is woj that mab is too smart to attempt to abuse the relationship.
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