The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Origins of the Sidhe (High Fae) [CD spoilers]
Second Aristh:
Nice theory Serack. I like it.
--- Quote from: Serack on May 07, 2014, 05:08:56 PM ---Meh, in my mind, the most likely source of dew drop fairies is spontaneous generation from literal dew drops and such... Possibly catalyzed by some spark of mortal imagination or some such.
--- End quote ---
That was my interpretation as well. You might also want to incorporate (this information) into your theory. It's one of the Paranet Papers, and it deals with a supposed Fountain of Youth in Florida connected to Summer. Billy mentions "ambient magic" in the area. I could certainly see that ambient magic playing a role similar to radiation mutating the susceptible locals. The spontaneous generation/mutation theory also makes the spider fae from TC more palatable in my mind as well.
Orbweaver:
--- Quote from: Lost Merlin on May 07, 2014, 04:40:52 PM ---Is it possible that they cannot, but maybe the spawn of certain lesser fae start as dew drop? or maybe even all fae?
Maybe even if Sarissa had chosen fae she would have been started at dew drop, but grew quickly due to being mabs daughter and an increase in responsibility or influence or Mountain Dew or what ever makes them grow in power and stature?
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Mountain Dew. Herald of the nation of Fae. Harry would be furious that a Pepsi product took precedence over Coke.
Edit: Nice theory, Serack. However, I have a question regarding it.
If the Fae are largely accounted for as having been mortal at one point, we have Namshiel in SmF stating that he watched as Harry's "kind" crawled from the muck. While he may have been lying and/or deceptive in that instance, with the chance that he's telling the truth... perhaps the Sidhe and/or Dewdrop faeries ultimately formed from the same substance as well. The legends regarding the Fae's emergence often give no time or reference frame to humanity's emergence, to my knowledge. It would seem to make the most sense to take the one link of commonality that we know they have in the DF lore, via Jim, and work backwards from that, right?
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: Orbweaver on May 07, 2014, 10:45:28 PM ---If the Fae are largely accounted for as having been mortal at one point, we have Namshiel in SmF stating that he watched as Harry's "kind" crawled from the muck. While he may have been lying and/or deceptive in that instance, with the chance that he's telling the truth... perhaps the Sidhe and/or Dewdrop faeries ultimately formed from the same substance as well. The legends regarding the Fae's emergence often give no time or reference frame to humanity's emergence, to my knowledge. It would seem to make the most sense to take the one link of commonality that we know they have in the DF lore, via Jim, and work backwards from that, right?
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I'm confused. We have that angels are older than humanity, but as far as I know we don't have a time link to the origins of fae, do we? Unless we say fae must have come along after humanity I suppose. Is that what you're getting at?
Also, we have Eldest Gruff in SmF with this dealing with the age of the Fallen:
--- Quote from: Small Favor Ch.44 ---And a voice, a very deep, resonant voice, said, “Be thou gone from this place, creature. My quarrel is not with thee.”
Magog answered with a howl and spat out words in a language I did not understand.
“Be that as it may, Elder One,” the huge voice said, gently and with respect, “I also have a duty from which I may not waver. We need not be at odds this night. Depart in peace, Elder One, with your beast of burden.”
Magog snarled again in that foreign tongue.
The deep voice hardened. “I seek no quarrel with thee, Fallen One. I pray thee, do not mistake peaceable intention for weakness. I do not fear thee. Begone, or I will smite thee down.”
--- End quote ---
Besides Namshiel, I want to say that Lash mentions a couple of things about how ancient angels are, but I'd have to search pretty heavy to find them.
Orbweaver:
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on May 07, 2014, 11:27:33 PM ---I'm confused. We have that angels are older than humanity, but as far as I know we don't have a time link to the origins of fae, do we? Unless we say fae must have come along after humanity I suppose. Is that what you're getting at?
Also, we have Eldest Gruff in SmF with this dealing with the age of the Fallen:
Besides Namshiel, I want to say that Lash mentions a couple of things about how ancient angels are, but I'd have to search pretty heavy to find them.
--- End quote ---
I think that in order to discover the origins of the Fae in the DV, we need to figure out when they emerged into existence. For that, we do have a few (admittedly very vague) references as to when Humanity (mortals) came about, from sources like the Fallen and to a lesser extent, Bob. There is a link between mortality and the fae, so it would seem that the origins of the Fae are linked into the origin of humanity. If we can pinpoint when humanity began having an impact on DV reality, we *might* be able to discover where the fae broke off. Or if it's the other way around, and humanity evolved from the Fae, when mortality emerged out of the immortal.
Serack:
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on May 07, 2014, 10:11:03 PM ---Nice theory Serack. I like it.
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--- Quote from: Orbweaver on May 07, 2014, 10:45:28 PM ---Edit: Nice theory, Serack. However, I have a question regarding it.
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As with most of the things I have ever posted, I feel like this is more a gathering of information than a theory, with the exceptions of a few minor conclusions at the end, and the stuff I said in the 1st reply.
--- Quote from: Orbweaver on May 07, 2014, 10:45:28 PM ---If the Fae are largely accounted for as having been mortal at one point, we have Namshiel in SmF stating that he watched as Harry's "kind" crawled from the muck. While he may have been lying and/or deceptive in that instance, with the chance that he's telling the truth... perhaps the Sidhe and/or Dewdrop faeries ultimately formed from the same substance as well. The legends regarding the Fae's emergence often give no time or reference frame to humanity's emergence, to my knowledge. It would seem to make the most sense to take the one link of commonality that we know they have in the DF lore, via Jim, and work backwards from that, right?
--- End quote ---
The one link I can easily cite is that Jim has said that every single Fae has a bit of mortal in them... I'm not confident I understand what you are trying to work backwards towards from there though...
TCF and I are working together to do a major update to the WoJ compilation, and over the course of this work, several interesting WoJ's are coming forefront to my attention. Two interesting ones that in some ways seem to be contradictory in my mind, and in other ways build off each other in interesting ways are:
(click to show/hide)
--- Quote from: 2012 AMA WoJ ---Dudesan: What we've seen of the cosmology of The Dresden Files seems very Earth-centric. Is that because everything really does revolve around the Earth[1] , or because we're seeing only a tiny slice of a much bigger picture? Are there other planets in real-space inhabited by extraterrestrial sentient beings? If so, do they have their own analogues of wizards, fairies, gods, etc? Are supernatural things influenced by their belief as it is by those of humans? If so, to what extent do these "spheres of influence" overlap?
Jim: 3) Everything revolves around /this/ earth, in the Dresden stories. But not necessarily around all (or even a majority of) the other earths that exist in the continuum of possibility created by free will. Other, parallel realities have other worlds playing a more central role, and some of them have earth in a nice quiet backwater, peaceful, relatively conflict free, and boring.
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--- Quote from: 2012 AMA WoJ ---Dudesan: The same story [Backup] seemed to imply that entities could gain or lose power retroactively, in a wibbley-wobbly timey-wimey sort of way. For example, The Almighty is the Creator of the Universe, but He hasn't always been the Creator of the Universe[4] . Is there anything to this assumption, and if so, might we see it explored in greater detail later?
Jim: 7) You're assigning limits where there aren't any. In the Dresden Files universe, what changes really isn't the actual beings. It's our understanding of who and what they are.
--- End quote ---
And here is another, older WoJ that is also pertinent:
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--- Quote from: 2011 GS Release interview ---There is a rather long discussion as to what constitutes free will as an element in the back end of this book (Ghost Story). Is what is presented and discussed as a concept, your own philosophy? How did that come about, the idea that free will is making your choices based upon truth.
Right, and in the Dresden Files universe it's a vital component. It's what divides mortals, human beings, from everybody else. Is that we're the ones that have elements of both good and evil inside us, we're the ones who get to chose what to do. And because that's who we are, we make the world around us through those choices. The forces of the universe, these cosmic forces are always balanced against one another, and we're the ones who can tilt that see-saw one way or another with our actions. I think that is largely true in real life, but it is certainly a very fun, dramatic use of the concept of free will for writing with. It's very important in general, and that's why Harry, as he's gotten more mature, he's striven so much harder to make sure that other people have a choice, you know, he's not trying to make choices for people any more, he's trying to make sure that they know what's going on, and can make an informed choice.
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What does this mean, and how does it apply to the origins of the Fae? Welllll, in terms of "the cosmic forces of the universe" these forces could be considered beings who "don't change" yet, apparently Mortal, Free Will driven choices can determine their prominence in reality, to the point of altering which forces in a particular version of reality hold sway over that reality...
Now for the actual theorizing... This is dipping into my "Mantle Theory" ideas, something that I'm working hard to make a major post about in the next month or so.
So what if some of these choices made by those with free will that cause certain cosmic powers to come to prominence in reality also involve taking on some of the aspects, powers and responsibilities of these cosmic powers/entities. And one of the flavors of how this could have happened in the past, could have involved changing some of these pivotal mortals into Sidhe.
Now for another what-if, which IMO is not as pivotal but is a deliberate nod to some of what Orbweaver seems to be looking towards. What if there was another ancient human-like race hewn from the muck of Earth in parallel with the human race. This hypothetical race also possessed free will, and in making some of these reality deterministic choices they were the ones that morphed into the Sidhe and took on those roles and responsibilities.
In my opinion, this last what-if adds some unnecessary but interesting complexity to the DF back-story. I prefer to stick with the Sidhe originally being humans, but it certainly is a valid hypothesis.
Edit: I think I will be splicing some of these thoughts into the 1st reply.
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