The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Team UMO: a theory, for reference purposes
Agravaine:
Nice theory, really like it. UMO have definitely worked on this a long time. You can add DR and Herne to the A-Team as well now.
So let's go back to the dinner of future woe. I don't think that there's any evidence that Justin was at the dinner. However, I do agree that Justin figured out the Star Born plan and worked hard to coopt it for himself. If they are as rare as they seem to be, it was quite a coup for Justin to have Harry AND Elaine under his influence. Lea watched over Harry, I wonder who watched over Elaine?
Anyway, I think that the implication of the evidence surrounding the Dinner points more to some kind of White Council Reform plan. She wanted to change the Council, had not enough support within it and thought she could use outside pressure groups -- The Whites, The Reds, etc. to affect change. She probably figured that her Father, being somewhat of a renegade himself would be more open to the possibility.
I believe that after Eb didn't cooperate, she started having second thoughts and tried to work free of LR. Perhaps she realized the danger she was putting everyone in (at least according to Luccio).
In short, the Starborn plan was something that she came to later -- after she had been on the run for a few years. Justin was likely one of her former (few) allies on the council and may have confided in him. Maggie may have even made Justin Harry's Godfather, which is why Eb never collected him.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Quantus on March 13, 2014, 04:50:39 PM ---The functional difference come in when you start assuming a greater level of shared information outside of the specific instances where you have have evidence of collaboration and/or a common interest.
--- End quote ---
I find it more plausible that the scales of tactical collaboration, or at least, joint efforts that contribute towards a common goal, we see in the text are part of a larger strategic collaboration than otherwise.
--- Quote ---Only one has anything close to "omniscient-level omniscience" and in that case JB was very specific to explain that Intellectus is distinct and less than Omniscience.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, you have to think of the question to get the answer in the first place.
One thing I really want to know is whether it is possible for a being with intellectus to deliberately avoid thinking of a specific question in order not to have the answer. I am inclined to think not, and I think that has implications for how much Uriel knows about Harry's likely reaction to their conversations given that Uriel kind of has to be thinking about talking to Harry while actually talking to Harry.
--- Quote --- Odin had, in the myths Im aware of at least, what amounted to a Prophetic vision that has guided his actions (while being hung from the world-tree after sacrificing his Eye), and then had some magical artifacts and minions that kept him apprised of current events by more traditional means. And Mab doesnt have Intellectus, she's just a clever bitch.
--- End quote ---
If some degree of pooling underlying intelligence is accepted, then information any one team member gets from intellectus is plausibly available to any team member.
--- Quote ---When you say counting under the same logic so you mean in the sense of the the Host provides his fallen with a Loophole, or that he is counted as one of Uriel's Minions?
--- End quote ---
I am positing Nicodemus, the host, counting as a minion of Uriel in this context, in a way not directly connected to anything Anduriel is doing. (And in a way he maybe hopes to parlay into sainthood; an incidental but vital role in saving the universe during the BAT by preparing Harry might not be a bad start towards that objective.)
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Agravaine on March 13, 2014, 05:15:15 PM ---Nice theory, really like it. UMO have definitely worked on this a long time. You can add DR and Herne to the A-Team as well now.
--- End quote ---
I think they are plausibly allies at this point but am not seeing anything to tie them in to the larger plan from the get-go. (Unless you count DR's existence as indirectly a consequence of Odin mentoring Merlin.)
--- Quote ---So let's go back to the dinner of future woe. I don't think that there's any evidence that Justin was at the dinner. However, I do agree that Justin figured out the Star Born plan and worked hard to coopt it for himself.
--- End quote ---
We don't know whether Justin was at that dinner, and I'm inclined to guess he wasn't; we know he abducted Bob during the final fall of Kemmler which, whether the dates in DB or GS turn out to be right, is I think before that meeting. We do however know from Eb in BR that Justin was a known associate of Maggie.
--- Quote --- If they are as rare as they seem to be, it was quite a coup for Justin to have Harry AND Elaine under his influence. Lea watched over Harry, I wonder who watched over Elaine?
--- End quote ---
I would guess, someone from Summer. From what Mab says in her first appearance in SK, having a hold over Harry is a significant thing for Lea and her standing within Winter, and there is a balance to be kept; and why it was Summer that Elaine ran to is the same scale of question as why it was lea that Harry ran to.
--- Quote ---Anyway, I think that the implication of the evidence surrounding the Dinner points more to some kind of White Council Reform plan. She wanted to change the Council, had not enough support within it and thought she could use outside pressure groups -- The Whites, The Reds, etc. to affect change.
--- End quote ---
Looking at what we know of the more conservative elements of the Senior Council, I'm not seeing how on Earth it's plausible that Maggie might think the opinions of the vampire courts are going to be taken into account or make a difference there.
--- Quote --- She probably figured that her Father, being somewhat of a renegade himself would be more open to the possibility.
--- End quote ---
I think it makes more sense that (presuming she knew he was Blackstaff, which is not something i recall evidence on either way) knowing he had licence to, and experience with, operating outside the Laws would have made him seem open to the possibility of the degree of playing fast and loose with knowledge about Outsiders it would take to create an anti-Outsider weapon.
--- Quote ---I believe that after Eb didn't cooperate, she started having second thoughts and tried to work free of LR. Perhaps she realized the danger she was putting everyone in (at least according to Luccio).
--- End quote ---
Maybe. I am much more inclined to think that Luccio's description of Maggie as political agitator occurs before Maggie left the Council and took up with company such as Justin and Lord Raith.
--- Quote ---Maggie may have even made Justin Harry's Godfather, which is why Eb never collected him.
--- End quote ---
Pshaw, and Pbeckett and Pwilde as well. Harry's Godfather is obviously Marcone.
Tami Seven:
Marcone is Everybody's Godfather.
ballplayer72:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on March 13, 2014, 04:40:33 PM ---True, I did not connect all the dots up there for what I was thinking, sorry about that.
I am speculatively positing that Demonreach exists in the first place by virtue of Odin advising Merlin that it would be a good idea and how to do it. And that Demonreach and the position of Warden of Demonreach may have been set up the way they were as a place to plug the Swiss Army Chainsaw into.
There was a suggestion a few months ago, and annoyingly I forget whose it was, that the location of the Stone Table in Chicago above Chicago in SK, and the location of Harry's dream of Malcolm in DB, are both echoes of Demonreach. I like that and I can see it fitting with the Team UMO idea - I am pretty convinced Malcolm in DB is an agent of Uriel's.
Perhaps. The impression I have of what the Wild Hunt did for Thomas was that it basically forced him to confront his nature and cleared his head some about stuff he always could have done but was leery of; not seeing any reason it could not have been the sort of buff you describe either, though.
Not that I recall.
--- End quote ---
Yeah putting it in chicago more than a 1000 years before america is even thought about seems to indicate some long term planning to me as well. Especially with the odin merlin connection.
In PG I think it was, Thomas notes he can SENSE the wild hunt coming from afar. He mentions he'd been "different" IIRC since joining up. And not a "i'm more in touch with the Hunger" different, you'd think he'd just say that, but just a "i'm different" thing. Couple that with his apparent increase in badass level from GP/DM/BR- then see PG when he is vastly improved (to my mind at least. ) And further into WN he is 2nd only to lara who is CENTURIES his senior. That's quite a boost. I always figured the Hunt had a little something to do with it.
Too bad. It doesn't mention how long he's had the name either. Might be interesting if Toots name and maybe simple instructions on the trap were something Lea had given him. Even more interesting if its something he learned from justin or eb.
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