The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Harry's murders of Non-humans! (Cold Days spoilers)
123456789blaaa:
I don't think the WG is the creator (at least, not how most people think of it) or the final authority. Jim however is both of those things and I think he's pretty much spelled out his views (see: the WoJ's I posted in the link). The WG and his forces may not know everything on the subject but they're pretty dang close.
I think you're off a bit with your last paragraph. IMO a better example would be if someone listened to this song and thought it was completely serious and not intended to be comedic. The person may not find the music funny at all-her emotions may be different than mine- but that doesn't change what the songwriters intended. If she says that the AoA literally singing "meaningless whisper" was not intended to be funny, I'd be comfortable in calling her wrong.
People may have different feelings and emotional reactions to different works. I would never attempt to force them to feel differently. However, that doesn't mean their aren't correct things and incorrect things to believe about that work.
Mira:
--- Quote from: 123456789blaaa on November 23, 2013, 02:57:20 AM ---I don't think the WG is the creator (at least, not how most people think of it) or the final authority. Jim however is both of those things and I think he's pretty much spelled out his views (see: the WoJ's I posted in the link). The WG and his forces may not know everything on the subject but they're pretty dang close.
I think you're off a bit with your last paragraph. IMO a better example would be if someone listened to this song and thought it was completely serious and not intended to be comedic. The person may not find the music funny at all-her emotions may be different than mine- but that doesn't change what the songwriters intended. If she says that the AoA literally singing "meaningless whisper" was not intended to be funny, I'd be comfortable in calling her wrong.
People may have different feelings and emotional reactions to different works. I would never attempt to force them to feel differently. However, that doesn't mean their aren't correct things and incorrect things to believe about that work.
--- End quote ---
I think it is more complicated than that, since we are all unique in our emotional make up, it doesn't really matter if there are "things correct or incorrect" in the eyes of morality or society in that song. What matters is how a person hears and translates those words in his or her brain. One person can be indifferent, another, hate the song, another love the song but neither is moved by it in an overtly emotional way.. Then there is the extremes, as the odd person who listens and is inspired to become a saint, and the other person who hears the same song and is inspired to become a serial killer.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: SAZ on November 23, 2013, 01:25:12 AM ---If the WG’s team (Uriel, the swords, the KotC etc…) are truly the final authorities on free will, and if the WG is the capital C Creator,
--- End quote ---
I think Sanya's answered that one in the text; even if they are, humans don't have to choose to allow them to arbitrate.
--- Quote ---When reading a fictional work and judging a character’s good or evil rating, I usually try and see if there are any cultural or world clues built into the story to help readers understand what the author intended to be good or evil.
--- End quote ---
Myself, I try not to assume the author has an agenda of that sort; exploration of questions is more fun than proselytising answers.
123456789blaaa:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 23, 2013, 02:20:31 PM --- I think it is more complicated than that, since we are all unique in our emotional make up, it doesn't really matter if there are "things correct or incorrect" in the eyes of morality or society in that song. What matters is how a person hears and translates those words in his or her brain. One person can be indifferent, another, hate the song, another love the song but neither is moved by it in an overtly emotional way.. Then there is the extremes, as the odd person who listens and is inspired to become a saint, and the other person who hears the same song and is inspired to become a serial killer.
--- End quote ---
I'm not talking about morality or society or emotions. I'm talking about statements like "the sky is blue". Pure fact.
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on November 23, 2013, 03:28:13 PM ---<snip>
Myself, I try not to assume the author has an agenda of that sort; exploration of questions is more fun than proselytising answers.
--- End quote ---
I think you misinterpreted the quote. An author doesn't have to have an agenda to put their own worldview into the text.
For example, if a person writes a book about dragons where there is a detailed functioning socialist society, the author is probably not someone who believes all socialism is doomed to fail. This doesn't mean she put the society in their to show how socialist societies totally can work. Perhaps it was just neccecary for the plot to function or an interesting bit of worldbuilding flavor.
There are of course exceptions but I'm pretty comfortable in saying that they're the minority. It's not something you just tack on to another novel. You need to have it in mind from the start.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: 123456789blaaa on November 23, 2013, 08:03:37 PM ---I'm not talking about morality or society or emotions. I'm talking about statements like "the sky is blue". Pure fact.
--- End quote ---
And yet I look outside my window and it seems grey to me right now.
--- Quote ---For example, if a person writes a book about dragons where there is a detailed functioning socialist society, the author is probably not someone who believes all socialism is doomed to fail.
--- End quote ---
Why not ? It could be exploring a what-if about socialism along with a what-if about dragons.
--- Quote ---There are of course exceptions but I'm pretty comfortable in saying that they're the minority. It's not something you just tack on to another novel. You need to have it in mind from the start.
--- End quote ---
I think you underestimate the degree to which a lot of speculative genre writers are following through consequences of where a given idea leads, even when it leads in directions very different from their own beliefs.
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