The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Harry's murders of Non-humans! (Cold Days spoilers)
123456789blaaa:
--- Quote from: Serack on November 19, 2013, 07:09:48 PM ---My paradigm for how magic works based off of many WoJ's and canon. This paradigm is that using magic is essentially using your will to rewrite reality as you see fit (this post outlines a lot of this paradigm but in a different context). Harry spends a lot of time pontificating about magic requiring that you believe in what you are doing. He also discusses how changing something causes a reciprocal change upon yourself (White Night discussion with “Lash”) so if you are using your will/magic to rewrite reality to snuff the life/free will out of mortals (or even non-mortals), reality is going to push back and reshape your own being in consistent way.
<snip>
--- End quote ---
The thing is though, there is an obvious difference in the books between corruption caused by breaking the Laws against non-mortals (though I'd expand that to non-Free Willed beings) and mortals. How many vampires and Fae and demons has Harry killed with magic? Sure he's gotten darker over the series but it's still nowhere near the level of corruption wizards get from killing only a few mortals. I think you could make a very strong argument that there is no (metaphysical) corruption from breaking the Laws against non-mortals.
No one gives a crap (in terms of morality) in-universe about the extinction of the RC after all. I don't think Jim does.
Serack:
--- Quote from: 123456789blaaa on November 22, 2013, 12:04:10 AM ---The thing is though, there is an obvious difference in the books between corruption caused by breaking the Laws against non-mortals (though I'd expand that to non-Free Willed beings) and mortals. How many vampires and Fae and demons has Harry killed with magic? Sure he's gotten darker over the series but it's still nowhere near the level of corruption wizards get from killing only a few mortals. I think you could make a very strong argument that there is no (metaphysical) corruption from breaking the Laws against non-mortals.
No one gives a crap (in terms of morality) in-universe about the extinction of the RC after all. I don't think Jim does.
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Unfortunately, the analogy/parallel I am going to build will be based off of RL which doesn't have magic, and thus this non magical parallel could muddy some of the waters because part of this discussion is magical corruption from killing and doing nasty things, vs just plain corruption for the same thing without magic. But the goal of this parallel is to conceptualize corruption WRT non mortals.
The Nazis went through a long, systematic campaign to dehumanize in the minds of the populace people like Jews and Gypsies and other victims of their "Final Solution.” They even used the term “Untermensch” (German for underman, sub-man, sub-human) to describe these people. From my life view it is incredibly difficult to understand what was portrayed in the last episode of “Band of Brothers” where the baker was completely indifferent to the fate of the “Untermensch” in the concentration camp down the road.
Tying it to how killing non mortals can corrupt Harry, in reply #26 of this very topic I quoted the relevant portions of WN where, at the beginning of the Camp Kaboom scene, Harry said there was no use hating the Ghouls for who they were. At that point he displays that he still posses empathy for this class of sentient beings. Now however, Harry appears to see them as the equivalent of “Untermensch” not worthy of compassion while they are being exterminated in mass.
Harry’s ability to remain empathetic towards humanity remains largely intact (the goal of the Council’s laws) but it seems to have been destroyed for those that fall into the class, “non human” which could certainly fall under the concept of having been corrupted by his killing non-humans with his magic. (A consequence of the "universal guidelines" of how magic works)
Serack:
--- Quote from: wyltok on November 06, 2013, 02:05:24 PM ---I'll just leave this here to see who clicks on it and ends up stuck in TVTropes the rest of the day:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatMeasureIsANonHuman
--- End quote ---
wyltok, again with the tvtropes =/
I actually didn't notice this post until today, but man is it pertinant to what I just said (and so much else in this topic)
Edit: By the way, there have been several long drawn out discussions on the potential monstrosity of Harry eradicating the Red Court at the end of Changes. I always chalked it up as a grey area rather than black and white he is or isn’t a monster. But I certainly see it and other similar magic uses as having an effect on him that is parallel with black magic corruption.
Xandarth:
A lot of Harry's behaviour which he is currently blaming on the mantel of the Winter Knight could actually be a sign he is one foot on the path to becoming a warlock. Lash used to try to tempt him with much the same sort of stimuli and she was more in touch with his subconscious than he is.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Xandarth on November 22, 2013, 01:19:12 PM ---A lot of Harry's behaviour which he is currently blaming on the mantel of the Winter Knight could actually be a sign he is one foot on the path to becoming a warlock. Lash used to try to tempt him with much the same sort of stimuli and she was more in touch with his subconscious than he is.
--- End quote ---
Or one could look at the fact that Harry is doing his best to control the mantle and with it himself. He could be going down the road to warlockhood, then again as pointed out by Father Forthill as way back as Proven Guilty, he is being tested and made strong for some other task. Like the best tempered steel, Harry is being heated and pounded many times, he will either come out strong, or be overworked become brittle and break. I also do not believe that he would have been gifted with a thing like soul fire if he was truly going down a dark road.
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