Author Topic: Price this IoP  (Read 6043 times)

Offline Wordmaker

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2013, 10:19:20 AM »
Which is a great way to handle the issue, in my opinion. Variety is wonderful. Anything that adds more to a setting for the players to use is a good thing.

Have you decided what the item will actually be, yet?

Offline blackstaff67

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2013, 11:46:13 AM »
Thinking Mace or Spear.  Clarifying on my last post, we wanted to avoid acquiring the Aspect KotS as that would logically require the PC to journey outside the local area; as a GM, that means either 1) a few solo sessions or b) dragging the party with her (Lots of Compels there, though!).  It would also mean the TB acquiring Nicodemus "I like killing the Knights of the Sword" as a potential enemy...with only nine Refresh to gain powers/stunts, that fight wouild be rather short and final.  Hence the new IoP, which IMO fills in rather elegantly.
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Offline Wordmaker

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2013, 11:55:58 AM »
Absolutely. A holy item not tied to any worldly-travel duties is a good call to add that flavour you want to help take on a Denarian, without the character's focus shifting drastically.

Offline Mr. Ghostbuster

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2013, 03:43:59 PM »
Our game has come to the point where Denarians are putting in appearances.  The True Believer in our group is tasked with defending  Holy Site that's a nexus of ley lines that the Denarians would like to destroy/corrupt.  Trouble is, as a group, we're not even Fully Submerged yet as characters: Wizard, Sorcerer, WCV (Despair), True Believer and a Wizard-Sniper (the latter getting his butt kicked by a BCV--moral: Don't leave the church!).
The group has nothing outside of the Trappings of Faith (holy water, etc.) to fight a Denarian should one show up and neither GM is comfortable calling in the Knights of the Cross as we feel the game should be about the PC's.

I proposed an IoP that only functions on/near the site and its ley lines that gradually loses power the further you got from it.  It's basically equivalent to a Sword of the Cross with all its powers and limitations, save that
1) Wielder loses the +1 bonus away from the sight of the site or the ley lines feeding into it.
2) Beyond X number of miles if functions as a normal sword ("X" to be determined later).  At that point the wielder is acting "off the clock" as it were.

Cost: -2 Refresh

1. You could make the big bad for that adventure not a denarian but something like one of their chief minions. Someone who is high placed but not as high as actual denarians. Nicodemus's mortal champion or something like that.

2. I once played a character who's high concept was "Wanna-be Knight of the Cross". He was essentially a watered-down Knight. I created a "blessed" sword for him to use, called it the Sword of St. Peter and gave it the backstory that it was once the ceremonial sword used by St. Peter, the first Pope. It was passed down down father-to-son down through the ages and kept by a family of True Believers for centuries. This gave it power but not so much that it was on par with the Swords.
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Offline Wordmaker

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2013, 03:52:45 PM »
Not to mention, while Nicodemus is the badass of badasses when it comes to the Denarians, he's unique in his immunity to harm. None of the other Denarians are described as having such protection, so while one would be tough in a fight, if the group approaches the challenge properly, they can certainly foil the Denarian's plans, even if they can't take it out in a straight fight.

What's that Harry says? "If you ever find yourself in a fair fight with someone, one of you has made a mistake."

Not having a holy weapon to hand just means the group can't trigger the Catch on the Denrian's Toughness powers.

Offline Quantus

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2013, 03:55:43 PM »
Another option is to grant the site itself a certain amount of innate power, perhaps fed by the ley lines and focused by the architecture of the temple itself, or through some specific statuary/cross/alter/etc.  It would weaken the denarians, rather than strengthening a character.  The difference being that its effect would be a passive, AoE thing, and not something that needs to be activated/wielded, and thus not requiring the standard IoP character requirements.  Maybe it prevents the nickleheads from using their transformation abilities, or maybe it imposes a new Catch that the PCs can leverage to their advantage.  Maybe it inhibits the control the Fallen can exert as they get closer to the center, so the denarians that are more dominating than partners with their host are suddenly not in control.  Or maybe its not a blanket weakening, but the site is designed to support a ritual that, when triggered, does something appropriately dramatic to the denarians present, so that the site itself is a snare to trap them.  Then you dont need to supercharge your PC's to the point where they can take denarians head on, instead they just need to maneuver and survive long enough to spring the trap, which then forcefully removes their coins or some such. 

These are just thought on how to level the field and leverage the site, without resorting to IoP rules.
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Offline cold_breaker

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2013, 04:51:22 PM »
Another option is to grant the site itself a certain amount of innate power, perhaps fed by the ley lines and focused by the architecture of the temple itself, or through some specific statuary/cross/alter/etc.  It would weaken the denarians, rather than strengthening a character.  The difference being that its effect would be a passive, AoE thing, and not something that needs to be activated/wielded, and thus not requiring the standard IoP character requirements.  Maybe it prevents the nickleheads from using their transformation abilities, or maybe it imposes a new Catch that the PCs can leverage to their advantage.  Maybe it inhibits the control the Fallen can exert as they get closer to the center, so the denarians that are more dominating than partners with their host are suddenly not in control.  Or maybe its not a blanket weakening, but the site is designed to support a ritual that, when triggered, does something appropriately dramatic to the denarians present, so that the site itself is a snare to trap them.  Then you dont need to supercharge your PC's to the point where they can take denarians head on, instead they just need to maneuver and survive long enough to spring the trap, which then forcefully removes their coins or some such. 

These are just thought on how to level the field and leverage the site, without resorting to IoP rules.

And suddenly, I have ideas to integrate this into my game! Nice!

Offline Quantus

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2013, 05:17:39 PM »
Happy to help :)
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2013, 09:08:59 PM »
Do you have a page reference for that? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just honestly don't think that's correct and I think the characters in OW back up my interpretation.

Plus (and I hate getting into debates on semantics, but this is the only thing I can find that might address this point) the wording on the Musts for an IoP is "An aspect directly referencing the Item of Power is required." The High Concept "Knight of the Cross" does not directly reference the sword, but "Wielder of Amoraccius" does.

The Template requires an appropriate High Concept. Says so on page 74.

And being a Knight is totally a direct reference to having a sword.

Offline Cadd

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2013, 09:23:24 PM »
If you want to get really picky "Knight of the Cross" is actually not a template.
The template is "Champion of God", with the Item of Power "Sword of the Cross [-3]" added.

Unfortunately, the only examples of Champions of God are the three known Knights of the Cross.

To me this means that the High Concept "Knight of the Cross" satisfies the requirement of the Template, while the aspect "Wielder of X" satisfies the must of the IoP.

Offline Wordmaker

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2013, 09:53:26 PM »
Looks like we've both dug our heels on on this one. I really don't want to argue over the definition of what a "direct reference" is, so can we agree to disagree?

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2013, 02:10:10 AM »
No. Agreeing to disagree is silly.

You don't need my permission to disagree with me. Which is good, because I have no actual reason to give you that permission.

(I'm not saying we have to continue this argument forever, but if you want to stop arguing than you can just...stop arguing.)

Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2013, 02:26:36 AM »
(I'm not saying we have to continue this argument forever, but if you want to stop arguing than you can just...stop arguing.)
That's what he was suggesting.  With, perhaps, a dose of tolerance on the side.   ;)
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2013, 02:39:17 AM »
There's a difference between agreeing to disagree and just not talking anymore.

The difference is, the former involves a little ritual that I find annoying at best. It always seems at least mildly dishonest to me.

Offline Wordmaker

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Re: Price this IoP
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2013, 06:20:37 AM »
If it makes you feel any better, I still think you're wrong, I'm just not going to try and convince you of it anymore  ;)