The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Law Talk
blackstaff67:
That would beg the question of whether or not it's within the White Council's Charter to execute people that, while not necessarily Lawbreakers, are still rather unsavory blemishes 'pon the face of the world and worth removing. If technical details prevented Morgan from taking down Dresden, they'd protest these people as well.
Vairelome:
--- Quote from: blackstaff67 on April 16, 2013, 09:47:45 AM ---That would beg the question of whether or not it's within the White Council's Charter to execute people that, while not necessarily Lawbreakers, are still rather unsavory blemishes 'pon the face of the world and worth removing. If technical details prevented Morgan from taking down Dresden, they'd protest these people as well.
--- End quote ---
It seems pretty clear that Warden enforcement varies based on the politics of the moment. Harry gets away with decent legal arguments because of Morgan's own integrity--which another Warden might well not have--and the fact that Morgan knows that Eb is Harry's mentor/patron.
Tedronai:
No, it rests solely on the concept that human interpretation can differ from universal fact.
If the White Council, through its Wardens, interpret's an individual's actions to be Lawbreaking, then it would clearly be within it's Charter to take the appropriate steps.
If you accept that the White Council is made of individuals, who can be wrong, then it follows logically that they may in some instances lop the head off an individual who has broken no Laws.
vultur:
I honestly don't understand the criteria for the Fourth Law. Some emotion effects (love potion in SmF) don't count, but some (Molly's phobia spell in PG) do. Elaine's mind fog spell is treated as at least semi-lawbreaking in SK, yet she doesn't seem to have been twisted by it. And Elaine has those memory-implanting-spark rings.
I guess the difference is supposed to be that the love potion intensifies a pre-existing emotion whereas the phobia spell creates one from whole cloth. But Elaine's memory-spark ring inserts something totally new...
I mean, I get that Molly's phobia spell is waaay more destructive. But what I don't see is why one is a violation of free will ("enthralling") and one isn't. Either emotions are "data" that the will can act based on, and modifying them doesn't affect free will; or they're more integral, and it does. But I don't see how you can have it both ways, at least if you're trying for a broadly applicable rule.
Mrmdubois:
The love potion was basically really strong liquor, she even got the hangover! In all seriousness though, what it's described as doing is lowering inhibitions. Which means that anything she did to Harry were things she wanted to do anyway, the potion just made her more likely to act on them. The effects were temporary and incapable of doing long term mental damage. At most it probably would have left the imbiber with the idea that, "Man, I did something really stupid there. What made me so desperate?" There might be some need for recovery involved but it's not nearly as intense. Also, keep in mind, Harry never intended to use it, so ideally there would have been no one under its influence, and since potions go stale in a day or so there would have also been no evidence.
The Fear spell Molly used on the other hand was designed with long term effects in mind, indeed as part of her standards for success. As for the damage done, even just days after casting it Molly's bf developed paranoia and basically started going crazy. He got the soft serve version of Black Court Renfield Creation.
There's also the question of whether or not what you do with an enchanted item counts as Lawbreaking. Could be that because the enchanted item is one step removed from the caster doing it himself directly that serves to keep it from being a Law violation. Though that excuse seems flimsy to me. Especially considering that's basically what Peabody did to the entire White Council. Actually, if what Peabody did was Lawbreaking then obviously the love potion Harry made was Lawbreaking too since both of them made the recipient of the material more likely to act on their impulses. The difference is that Harry didn't get caught. Also remember that mind mojo is really hard to catch without using the Sight, and even then it can apparently be done subtly enough to make it very difficult to detect. So it's likely that most wizards with the facility for it really push the edges on this particular field of magic.
Suggestions are apparently a grey area or okay as mentioned in Turn Coat, since Harry uses suggestion laced wards to protect his little storage unit hideout.
Ok, I'm betting Peabody didn't actually break any Laws with his ink. He broke Laws in regards to mind controlling Wardens much more completely, and he was going to die anyway because he was a mole who betrayed the White Council. The inks would have come up for consideration in their role of influencing the White Council and the Senior Council in particular, but any charges that they were a Law violation would have been dropped. Any use of them as evidence of undermining the council would have stuck though.
So, love potion, basically a short term suggestion. Fear spell, long term compulsion. Short term suggestion is okay, long term compulsion violates the Law. Which makes sense, enthrallment implies long term servitude.
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