The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Law Talk
ReaderAt2046:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on May 14, 2013, 05:02:39 PM ---I don't see how it's saying that at all.
--- End quote ---
Because you have your character heroically fighting against the crazy guy with the ax (or something like that) and then the GM says "Ok, now you're an evil murderer and you have to change your personality to reflect that", when you (and your character) are absolutely certain that you aren't in the wrong. Or even the GM actually taking your character away from you for trying to be a hero.
Hmm... maybe I could make this work by imagining that the Lawbreaker bonus in this specific case reflects less homicidal mania and more the sort of psychic conditioning that soldiers get to train them to fight and kill when necessary.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: ReaderAt2046 on May 14, 2013, 05:11:45 PM ---Because you have your character heroically fighting against the crazy guy with the ax (or something like that) and then the GM says "Ok, now you're an evil murderer and you have to change your personality to reflect that", when you (and your character) are absolutely certain that you aren't in the wrong. Or even the GM actually taking your character away from you for trying to be a hero.
Hmm... maybe I could make this work by imagining that the Lawbreaker bonus in this specific case reflects less homicidal mania and more the sort of psychic conditioning that soldiers get to train them to fight and kill when necessary.
--- End quote ---
First, no, you're grossly exaggerating the effect and the immediacy. It's not an instant change, any more than smoking one cigarette instantly turns you into a chain smoker. There's a reason the Lawbreaker power has it so it changes the more you break that law--one kill with magic isn't going to turn you into Bloodbath McEvilwizardington. But one kill with magic will make you somewhat more likely to kill with magic again, and it's a cumulative effect.
Secondly, you seem to be operating from the impression that a character has to kill (or even, oddly, that they have to kill to be a hero?), when that's pretty much never the case. Outside of a compel, it's always the player's choice how a Taken Out result goes.
And if you do kill once with magic, it doesn't ever mean "Ok, now you're an evil murderer and you have to change your personality to reflect that," it means, "Okay, now you're the sort of person who believes they can kill with magic, change one aspect to reflect that."
Here's the key words: "when you (and your character) are absolutely certain that you aren't in the wrong" is exactly why there's the laws of magic. Some of the worst atrocities in history were caused by people who were "absolutely certain" that they're not wrong. It's exactly that mindset--"I'm completely right for killing this person," via lawbreaker, becomes, "I'm right for killing," and eventually works itself up to, "I'm always right for killing, and you deserve to die because I said so."
Sanctaphrax:
Reader, your moral code doesn't correspond very well to the one assumed by the rules of this game.
Fortunately, you have the authority to change those rules.
You can make Lawbreaker non-mandatory, you can allow people to avoid it if they're acting for good reasons, you can make it less about morality and more about methodology.
vultur:
--- Quote from: Mrmdubois on May 12, 2013, 07:09:34 PM ---Just because they're not human and lack the same basics in terms of free will and all that doesn't mean you're not reinforcing a mindset that goes, "Kill 'em." Killing anything with magic promotes fantastic racism,
--- End quote ---
But that's the fundamental difference. In the Dresdenverse, it's not analogous to racism, because people (of whatever group) are people. Red Court Vampires or demons are not people. We have authorial word on the fact that there is a fundamental, metaphysical distinction there. In the DV, the difference is very real.
The idea is that a human being, a person, can still decide to turn their life around, and if they're killed, all that potential, everything they could be, is killed. But Kalshazzak is always going to eat you if he gets the chance, he can't change that, can't even want to change that any more than a worm can grow wings.
See the WoJ about how a Black Court Vampire would still recognize its relatives from life, but it wouldn't actually make the BCV any less likely to prey on them.
Mrmdubois:
I'm not actually disagreeing with you or I don't think I am anyways.
My point isn't that every instance of killing with magic will net you Lawbreaker, it's simply that whenever you use magic to kill you're more likely to do it again because you believe it to be right.
It is analogous to racism in that supernatural creatures are deemed "acceptable" targets. Which is the only comparison to racism that I intended to draw. Obviously you're going to dehumanize the inhumane, or you would be smart to anyways.
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