The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Reforging a Mantle + My cup is full [CD Spoilers]
lilylis:
--- Quote from: Serack on December 29, 2012, 03:48:52 AM ---
Not only will Harry succeed in retaining who he is rather than the Winter Mantle taking that away from him, but his use of Soulfire while the Winter Knight will Reforge the
so what Mantles does Harry wear/Job descriptions does he hold?
* White Council Member (card carrying, the paperwork for his re-admittance has been filed)
* Vanilla Warden Regional Commander
* Sword of The Cross Custodian x2 (currently proxied out to Murph, his Robin)
* Host to some unidentified "parasite"
* Mortal Soulfire Wielder
* Starborn (Whatever that means)
* The Warden of Demonreach
* Winter Knight
--- End quote ---
Perhaps not mantles of power in themselves but definitely power-ups of a sort....Harry is the initiating founder of the Paranetters in the Dresdenverse...it was his idea...and they are one of his groups of allies who although not individually very powerful do become of source of information to him and his other allies...and knowledge is power.
This is also similar to being ZA Lord and his relationship to Toot and his team of wylde fae dewdrop faeries & pixies. Whether through bribery... they are allies and in a sense a powerup of sorts...one others often overlook.
Every ally or group of allies he collects in essence gives Harry a boost of some sort.... whether they are a magical Foo Dog, a group of shapeshifing human/werewolfs, the knights of the cross, an archangel, Big Foot & Son, or shoemaking elves....etc
I suspect all Harry's allies will come into play for the BAT as well as the mantles of power he has been collecting.
Ms Duck:
what wonders me is does DR have an actual mantle? Eb's notes sugest thats so, or is he using the word differently?
its possible that it does, and Harry hasnt felt it yet, because DR is afriad it will fry his little monkey brain ;)
kytheros:
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on January 12, 2013, 01:52:31 AM ---and i think youre over simplyfing things a bit:
the mantles likely have more then one purpose. (mab's for example probably does waaay more then just make her logical.)
the WK, along with making a violent idiot, also has very strong reporductive instincts wired into it where sidhe ladies are concerned.
and I doubt the 'warden of DR' is a mantle at all, frankly. A 'mantle' is in essence, i suspect, a more advanced bob. a programmed knowledge system that can be passed from host to host; some are likely far more advanced then others. While harry gains some information from sharing DR's knowledge, there doesnt seem to be any instinctive programming built into it.
what i believe Mother Summer was saying is that the mantles learn from each bearer, and Harry can choose to change his in some ways if he has enough will.
the WK mantle may be a violent idiot now, but wanna bet that by the time Harry passes it on it wont be?
--- End quote ---
More advanced Bob? Nah. I'd say it'd be a significantly less 'advanced', if by 'advanced' we're meaning intelligent/self-aware. Of course, depending on the Mantle in question, it may or may not be more powerful.
Being nearly or more advanced than Bob, I think would be less like a Mantle, and more something like the Fallen component of a Denarian.
In computer terms, Bob is an complete self-aware AI, a Mantle is more akin to smart or expert programing.
lilylis:
--- Quote from: peregrine on January 12, 2013, 02:15:02 AM ---Where is this idea that Mab thinks always logically? We've seen, even in the most recent book, that Mab can let her decisions be made on an emotional basis. It's why she had Harry do the job, instead of herself.
--- End quote ---
It is the nature of winter and its mantles to be more logical and summer to be more emotional.... it is not an always kind of thing or so it seems... Mother Summer hinted at this...and Mab herself claims she was once human. Harry figured it out himself after speaking with Mother Summer that Mab has a mother's emotions and cannot kill her own daughter although it needed doing....hence her command to Harry. But typically, Winter's Mantle influences toward logic rather than emotions IIRC.
KevinSig:
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on January 12, 2013, 01:52:31 AM ---what i believe Mother Summer was saying is that the mantles learn from each bearer, and Harry can choose to change his in some ways if he has enough will.
--- End quote ---
I've already responded to you on this & think that view is flat wrong. To reiterate:
--- Quote ---See the section where Harry's mantle gives him unhelpful advice on how to fight Fix, & how Harry points out that Slate killed the previous Summer Knight by shoving him down the stairs (thus, ignoring the mantle). The mantle doesn't learn, it's just an unthinking bunch of occasionally helpful instinctual commands. It is up to the Knight who holds them to choose to listen or ignore these imperatives.
Bob believed that the mantle could not be changed & from Harry's descriptions of past WKs, if it changes any, it must be a glacially slow process. Mab spent a lot of time energy getting Harry specifically. Maybe because she knew he was the sort whose Will, could ignore the less than productive qualities of the Winter Knight.
--- End quote ---
I'm not suggesting that a mantle is incapable of learning, but changing its nature. Even if you don't believe The Warden is mantle, despite Ebneezer's description of it in his journal, there is the soul fire & Starborn elements to consider.
Without adding bit & pieces to the WK mantle, you will never really change it. Hence the long succession of similarly jerky Winter Knights. You can only ignore its imperatives.
Unless the mantle gets reforged, it won't be different for the next Winter Knight. What I'm trying to suggest is that Harry's various mantles might do what prior Winter Knights have not.
--- Quote from: WOJ ---Mab, for example, is Mab. She /can't/ show up and suddenly be merciful, generous, patient and kind. It would never so much as occur to her to do so, because it isn't a fundamental part of her nature, and she /can't/ choose to change it. She simply isn't capable. She doesn't have free will in the same way that people do. It's related to the difference between having a soul and not having a soul, as well. Without a soul, you aren't free to choose how you will shape that soul. You just stay what you are.
--- End quote ---
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