The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Reforging a Mantle + My cup is full [CD Spoilers]
Electric MacButters:
I find it had to believe no one has mentioned the single greatest mantle Harry is burdened with: (click to show/hide)High priest and chief litter box emptier of the dread beast Mister. This is why his cup is full, all his other mantles combined make up just a small fraction of this one. In the right set of circumstances, it might even rival that of the Mothers.
Paladino:
Kind (ok totally) offtopic but...
--- Quote ---Well, I don't want to hand out too much outside the context of an actual story. But within the context of the Dresden books, Bob isn't, like, an actual mortal person.
Mortals are the ones who have free will, the ability to choose what they're doing, to choose between right and wrong. Without getting too thickly into the underlying philosophy, that's the thing that separates, for example, mankind from the angels--the angels didn't get the same kind of choice about their existance, and what they would do with it. Mortals get the chance to make all kinds of decisions, and can change their minds, well, at will. Other creatures, though they may look like people, don't get the same range of choices about who and what they will be.
Mab, for example, is Mab. She /can't/ show up and suddenly be merciful, generous, patient and kind. It would never so much as occur to her to do so, because it isn't a fundamental part of her nature, and she /can't/ choose to change it. She simply isn't capable. She doesn't have free will in the same way that people do. It's related to the difference between having a soul and not having a soul, as well. Without a soul, you aren't free to choose how you will shape that soul. You just stay what you are.
--- End quote ---
Does anyone ever read this and thougth that Jim mention Mab to give example of how supernatural creatures are stuck on their nature, but when he start talking about souls (enphasis mine) he is again talking about Bob? So that maybe Mab or even the sidhe in general may have souls of somekind?
English is not my first language, so I'm not sure if the WoJ can be interpreted/read this way... Just a thougth I had..
Rasins:
Someone (I think it was Serack) mentioned the "cup full" thing with regards to taking on Mantles. We know that Harry has always felt that his plate is full. Well, not when he as sitting in his office reading novels, but since he took on Wardening for the WC for sure. Now he's taken on the Mantle of the WARDEN, and the Mantle of the WK. This impliles one of two things. Harry's cup isn't/wasn't full, or Harry's cup grows. I lean toward the latter. Humans can, and do, change (look at the will discussion). I think this includes thier metaphysical capabilities. I think supernaturals (Mab, fae, angels, ...) Don't or RARELY change, as evidenced by Jim's statements about Aurora and the other concepts never even ocurring to Mab and Tatiana.
All of this leads me to the possibility that while Harry's cup may be full, or close to full, I think he's stretching his limits and making more cup available.
What does this have to do with reforging the mantles into one, or mingleing them and having two new, well it's a twist.
I think we'll see Harry take on MORE power. It may conincide with Halloween and he may be able to take on bits of others Mantles. Let's not forget that folks can take and drop bits of Mantles on Halloween. In fact, he may already have taken on some of the Earlking's "Leader of the Wild Hunt" mantle. Remember that Earl ASKED Harry if he could lead it for the rest of the hunt. Two things happened there, Harry TOOK the leadership. When I first read this I thought of it as nothing more than Harry returning the Wild Hunt to a capable leader. However what it if is now Harry allowed a "vassle" to lead in his place. If this is the case, then he still has the leadership chunk of the Wild Hunt as part of the new HBCD Mantle which will include bits of others including WARDEN and Winter Knight.
Paladino:
Back on topic..
Really cool theorie Serack. I find interesting that Soulfire migth give Harry the power to change the WK mantle. After all it's the "power of creation".
Question is, does Mab knows this? Does she wants this? Does she think Harry won't do it? What would she gain or lose with it?
As for Harry fusing the mantles in only one, I find it that it is too much especulation yet. Don't think it's going to happen. Maybe if he gets a nother mantle from Odin or other god we could especulate that Harry is being forged by many diferent powers to take Mab place as Earth Guardian.. Or any job that every major players want's done but that require their coperation but none trusth the other to be the one responsible for it..
spameroo:
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on December 29, 2012, 07:38:18 PM ---thinking about the gawaine/gwalchmai myth.. doi the knight sof the cross have a mantle of sorts of their own? it would explain why they can do things even without the swords
--- End quote ---
Harry referred to "the mantle of a Knight of the Cross" in Small Favor. If nothing else, it's a "mantle" in terms of being a role/position/title of power and responsibility. I think everyone is putting way too much stock in this idea that a "mantle," as discussed in Cold Days specifically, is some kind of discrete thing, whether a metaphysical object of sorts, or some kind of quasi-sentient entity. Words mean things, and that's not quite what "mantle" means. I think the best way to consider it is as the relevant dictionary definition: an important role or responsibility that passes from one person to another. In the Dresden universe, we've seen many times that with great responsibility comes great power. That power can take different forms.
In the best-described case, when Harry assumed the mantle of (i.e., took on the role of, accepted the responsibility of, put on the metaphysical uniform of, etc...) the Winter Knight, part of that process involved literally taking into himself the essence of Winter and a measure of Mab's power. That is a part of the mantle of the Winter Knight, because it is part of what defines "the Winter Knight."
Harry took up the mantle of "Warden of the Well," if unintentionally, and as part of that, he gained intellectus of the island and authority over the disposition of the prisoners. "Warden of the Well" is a mantle in the exact same way "Winter Knight" is.
When Maeve killed Lily, we watched the passing of the mantle of Summer Lady into the nearest vessel of Faerie as a literal, visible transfer of the essence of Summer. Same with the mantle of Winter Lady shortly after. However, that doesn't mean the fiery bird form and the blue snake form WERE the mantles. Those were manifestations of the powers encompassed within those mantles. This is a difficult distinction to put into words, and I'm probably not explaining myself well, so let me give a final example:
There is a mantle of the Knight of the Cross. We haven't yet observed that mantle passing TO anyone, but we've seen it taken off. One aspect of the mantle is that archangels send the Knights to where they are most needed. One aspect is the fear, respect, and deference given to the Knights by many supernatural beings. The most obvious aspect of the mantle, though, is the Sword. A Knight of the Cross carries a Sword of the Cross. Much of the power that goes with the mantle comes from the wielding of the Sword. Bearing a Sword doesn't make someone a Knight, but the inverse is true. The Swords of the Cross are analogous to the fire-bird and ice-snake that accompanied the passing of the Ladies' mantles.
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