Is the Minor Talent Template underpowered?

[studer]

A Pure Mortal gets a +2 Refresh for having no powers. All the other Templates have less restrictions on what Powers they can buy and how much they can spend buying them. Should the Minor Talent Template perhaps receive a +1 Refresh to compensate for these limitations?

[Locnil]

What restrictions did the template have? afb atm, or I'd check.

[Blackknight1239]

What restrictions did the template have? afb atm, or I'd check.

The template allows a single supernatural power of -1 refresh (-2 with approval), and the GM is encouraged to make the power in the Psychic or Minor categories.

It does seem like the short end of the stick for the minor talent; I'd almost just give them the power for free, if they're not allowed any more fancy toys.

[Locnil]

Ah. Then yes, it is rather underpowered. Though not really relevant, since most people won't insist on sticking to the templates anyway.

[UmbraLux]

Templates are just starting points.  You can (and possibly should) grow out of them.  Look at how the characters grow and change through the novels...

[Richard_Chilton]

Then again, the RAW says to use templates.

Richard

[Locnil]

But does it say to stick to them throughout?

[UmbraLux]

@Richard:  Yep...in the character creation & template section.  Not mentioned at all under advancement. 

Also we have several examples of characters having grown beyond (or never met) any single template.  Vampires who can cast spells.  Wizards who use many types of sponsored magic.  Apprentice (former) wizards with only thaumaturgy.  And probably a few others I've forgotten.

[admiralducksauce]

Then again, the RAW says to use templates.

Richard

Hehehe, the RAW's more like... guidelines.

[studer]

admiralducksauce: RAW?

All: I agree about going free-form instead of Templates, but that's no reason not to fix them. Not all games are Templateless.

[Haru]

I think generally, the "weaker" templates are there as entry points at lower levels. For example, you could take a minor talent and progressively upgrade it through focused practitioner over sorcerer to wizard. Pretty much like channeling and ritual are gone entirely, once you take the upgrade to evocation or thamaturgy.

So yes, it is weak, but only because it is one of the templates that will mostly be there at the lower powered end. They will either upgrade or stay out of the major supernatural conflicts (for the most part, anyway).

Also, I agree with the 'guidelines' character of the templates. Thanks for the video, admiral 

[Lavecki121]

admiralducksauce: RAW?

Rules As Written

All: I agree about going free-form instead of Templates, but that's no reason not to fix them. Not all games are Templateless.

And there is no reason for them not to be. However it is the choice of the player as well as the idea of the character. A minor talent player has chosen that concept and has the ability to upgrade their character per normal rules. There is nothing restricting them from gaining more supernatural powers.

[Sanctaphrax]

I think players take weak templates because they've created weak characters and need templates that fit them.

Nobody makes a character whose only Power is Mana Static because the Minor Talent Template says they have to, they make a character whose only Power is Mana Static because that's the character they want. Then they pick the Minor Talent Template because it works for their character. (At least, that's what I do. And I assume others do something similar.)

So it's okay if a given template is really weak. It won't make a character underpowered if it wasn't already.

[Lavecki121]

I think thats what I was trying to say.

[JDK002]

I think players take weak templates because they've created weak characters and need templates that fit them.

Nobody makes a character whose only Power is Mana Static because the Minor Talent Template says they have to, they make a character whose only Power is Mana Static because that's the character they want. Then they pick the Minor Talent Template because it works for their character. (At least, that's what I do. And I assume others do something similar.)

So it's okay if a given template is really weak. It won't make a character underpowered if it wasn't already.

Seconded.  None of my players even looked at the templates when they made their characters.  They made the characters they wanted to play and found what template fit best.  None of us are power gamers, so it didn't really matter if any of them were under or over powered.

We ended up with a nice mix.  An Emissary of Power who's power source is a sadistically annoying trickster demon, a socially awkward Pyromancer who's unsure and insecure about her power, a White Council wizard who's a recruiter for the war with the Red Court, a Scion of a fallen angel (changeling template) who works for the mortal mafia, and a morally ambiguious pure mortal who aquired and sells rare supernatural items.

Incidentally, this was also how I determined the refresh level of the game.