The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
[CD spoilers] Proven Guilty
knnn:
Some thoughts:
1) Yet again, Elegast -- you've come up with amazing explanation for everything. Kudos
2) Nevertheless, I'm not as happy with this one, as it totally comes off as a big win for Nemesis. As a Mab fan, I would have preferred for this to be at least a draw. On the other hand, I suppose this makes Mab success in SmF even more awesome...
3) One weak point of the theory seems to be the lack of a reason for the false attack on AT. It seems like Mab herself set in motion the chain of events that would bring Harry to shoot fire into the Well. As such, the first attack is little more than a diversion -- and one easily defeated.
4) Also, Mab winking at Harry seems a little incongruous given that she just suffered a major defeat. Add to that the WoJ that doesn't scan to me as Mab suffering a defeat... ...still, you have everything lined up nicely. I'm going to have to think about this a bit more.
knnn:
--- Quote from: Serack on December 04, 2012, 07:09:24 PM ---Something tells me that Nemesis's control over a being is more effective if it remains subtle, or it can get more use out of said being if the being still retains its own identity.
--- End quote ---
^this^
Consider that we're dealing with beings who are playing a chess game across the universe, and that given the resources available to both sides brute-force is almost never going to work. Also, since both are neigh-infallible predicting machines, each will be continually shutting down the other's gambits, ending each round in a stalemate. The only way one of them can really get an advantage is by playing a game where not all the variables can be predicted --- by either side.
In practice what this means is that both sides are playing with mortal pawns while only subtly using their influence (which would be countered by the other side), and taking big chances (e.g. risking the Archive) in the hopes the their limited vision will triumph.
Interesting enough, one can argue that the fact that mortals have free will is the key point of the battle -- in a sense, those minor decisions are the only ones that are unpredictable by both Mab and Nemesis, and so success or failure of their eternal conflict hinges precisely on that.
-- This might even serve to explain why Mab smiles every time Harry stands up to her. The fact that he isn't bowing down to her desires means that he still is unpredictable to an extent -- he is still useful as a pawn.
Elegast:
--- Quote from: knnn on December 04, 2012, 07:35:44 PM ---Some thoughts:
1) Yet again, Elegast -- you've come up with amazing explanation for everything. Kudos
2) Nevertheless, I'm not as happy with this one, as it totally comes off as a big win for Nemesis. As a Mab fan, I would have preferred for this to be at least a draw. On the other hand, I suppose this makes Mab success in SmF even more awesome...
3) One weak point of the theory seems to be the lack the reason for the false attack on AT. It seems like Mab herself set in motion the chain of events that would bring Harry to shoot fire into the Well. As such, the first attack is little more than a diversion -- and one easily defeated.
4) Also, Mab winking at Harry seems a little incongruous given that she just suffered a major defeat. Add to that the WoJ that doesn't scan to me as Mab suffering a defeat... ...still, you have everything lined up nicely. I'm going to have to think about this a bit more.
--- End quote ---
1) Thx.
2) Mab can't win them all, or there would be no BAT.
3) You're right. The Arctis Tor attack is the weakest link, as my explanation is not really convincing. I have a second possibility: Nemesis killed the guard of Arctis Tor to let Harry survive the attack. Had he not, the trolls would have flattened Harry in 3 s, so no chase after Harry
4) I don't really know what to think of the wink.
Elegast:
--- Quote from: knnn on December 04, 2012, 07:35:44 PM --- Add to that the WoJ that doesn't scan to me as Mab suffering a defeat...
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: WOJ ---who says Mab /lost/ the battle at Arctis Tor, before Harry and Company arrived?
--- End quote ---
;D
knnn:
--- Quote from: Elegast on December 04, 2012, 07:55:06 PM --- ;D
--- End quote ---
Yes, it occurred to me that the WoJ could be read that way...
As I said, I'm going to have to think about this a bit, but for now my working theory is that Mab was entirely getting her way, at least until Harry poured Summer Fire.
So:
1) Mab rescues Molly from Nemesis.
2) Thwarts the first attack.
3) **not sure about Scarecrow
-- Harry does what he does best
4) Nemesis pulls off a last minute upset by having Maeve slow time. This outs Maeve (note that this possibly happens after the wink, so Mab might well still be feeling smug), but the damage is done.
Note:
- An interesting thing would be to look back at Jim's CIA response to Neuro's original post in light of our current theories. It might be that there is some cryptic phrase in there that might suddenly click.
- Come to think of it, there was also that WoJ about "exactly two things correct" regarding demonreach. We might have better intelligence about that one.
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