Author Topic: Items of Power as Animals?  (Read 5207 times)

Offline citadel97501

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Items of Power as Animals?
« on: September 15, 2012, 08:14:03 AM »
Hello all,

My players and I just had an interesting idea about how to emulate familiars and creatures like it, what about using the items of power rules but the creature has the powers of the item or applies them by its presence?

Quick Examples:
Cerberus Cub: -3 (-5 with a +2 discount)
-Echoes of the Beast: It is a dog?
-Pack Instincts: It is a dog?
-Ghost Speaker: It makes sense for a Cerberus Cub...
-True Aim: Fists rolls
-Claws: It is a dog?

Malk Familiar: -3 (-5 with a +2 discount)
-2 x Refinements: Specialties only not extra foci...
-Glamours
-Marked by Power

Offline Tedronai

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2012, 09:46:23 AM »
Items of Power grant their powers to their wielder.  They do not wield those powers themselves.  At least, not as far as game mechanics are concerned.
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Offline Chrono

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2012, 12:44:49 PM »
It is a fun idea, but the mechanics need to be just slightly different than they are for an item of power. I believe there was a thread here with rules for pets and companions that worked much better for this sort of thing.

Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2012, 01:12:06 PM »
My players and I just had an interesting idea about how to emulate familiars and creatures like it, what about using the items of power rules but the creature has the powers of the item or applies them by its presence?
It's been done and works well.  ;)
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2012, 03:00:35 AM »
I've heard this idea quite a few times, but I really have no idea how the heck it could work.

Seriously, Item of Power modifies your Powers. So an IoP pet with Claws would just give you weapon 2 Fists attacks.

Is that really the intent?

Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2012, 04:05:28 AM »
I've heard this idea quite a few times, but I really have no idea how the heck it could work.
Of course it can work.  A role-playing game is a rule-based system with a variable and quantifiable outcome set in a persistent imaginary world where players influence the outcome and the environment through avatars (tokens present in and also influenced by the imaginary world), players feel attached to the outcome, and the consequences of the activity are optional and negotiable.

It doesn't matter whether your character / avatar is one being or multiple as long as everyone uses the same set of rules.
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2012, 06:16:50 AM »
But that's the thing.

The Cerberus cub example here has Pack Instincts. By the Item of Power rules, that means that what it actually does is give its owner Pack Instincts.

I suppose it's possible that it's intended to work that way, but it really doesn't seem so. As I said in my last post, is that really the intent?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 07:41:06 AM by Sanctaphrax »

Offline citadel97501

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2012, 07:05:21 AM »
My intent on these abilities on the Cerberus Cub, is to allow you to have a low fists score and alertness while still having good rolls for these when you have your pet of power with you...

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2012, 07:47:33 AM »
Well, the cerberus cub under these rules will help your Alertness and Fists. But if you have crummy skills, it'll only make you a bit less crummy.

PS: Linkity linkity.

Offline Silverblaze

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2012, 05:45:12 PM »
It also creates an indestructible animal.

I would find a way to abuse the hell out of that.

Offline Taran

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2012, 07:22:15 PM »
unless you shared consequences.

Offline Tedronai

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2012, 07:35:44 PM »
unless you shared consequences.

That wouldn't be 'using the IoP rules, though'.  And if you're already building a separate Power, why not build one that better represents the narrative?
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Offline Centarion

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2012, 03:28:53 PM »
I see no problem with using the Item of Power rules for this type of thing, but keep in mind powers need to be justified. I do not really like the idea of a familiar IoP that gives True Aim or Claws for example (unless you flavor your fists attacks/skill rolls as the familiar attacking for you), but I have no problem with it helping you with alertness/senses, because it can communicate with you. In order for this to work and be fair, it should be the same (mechanically speaking) as any other item of power.

So for the Cerberus Cub example, I see no problem with the character being able to use Pack Instincts/Echoes of the Beast/Ghost Speaker when his pet is around (with his own skills), and narratively describe it as the pet sensing/interacting and relaying this information to him like a translator (either by talking or some mental connection). When you get into combat, it gets a little weirder, but I see no problem with the character using his fists roll, at +1 for true aim, with weapon 2 for claws, and having the attack flavored as the Cub going and biting/mauling someone (in the character's zone). Mechanically this is the same as an item granting the character these powers, but the narrative flavor of a power or stunt can be whatever you can think of.

For the Malk, I personally do not get the flavor of the Malk granting refinements, but that is not really a necessary part of the "item" (the character could just take them, and the item would cost -3 with a +2 discount). Also, Malks do not have Glamours, but I do like the concept of the item of power granting magic being flavored as your pet actually doing the casting (using your skills of course).

As for the indestructible animal thing, since the character and his pet will generally be in the same zone (in combat), there should really be not a mechanical distinction between attacks on the character and the pet (by the rules any attack that could target the pet, could also target the player), so again it all just sues the players stress and consequences. Out of combat, I would likely allow the player to invoke his "Item of Power" related aspect for effect to have the pet go off exploring or whatever without him (still using his skills, plus any powers the pet grants). This does not seem OP, even if the pet cannot be hurt itself (at least to me).

Basically, if you use the IoP rules, the mechanical effect it grants should be the same as if the pet was actually an item granting the powers to the character. How you flavor that narratively is totally up to you. Further, since aspects are so fluid and story driven any way, such an "item" provides great justification for invokes that a normal item could not (and possibly compels when it gets "dog-napped" or something).

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2012, 04:05:10 PM »
An Item Of Power dog is still a dog. It has a trapping called It Is What It Is, so it's probably what it is. And generally one's dog does not share one's stress tracks.

If your dog is mechanically represented as an Aspect, then it still doesn't share your stress tracks because it can't be attacked or otherwise hurt.

I can understand the "animal-as-IoP" thing if the animal is just the source for some of a character's Powers, but whenever I see somebody suggesting IoP animals they seem to have effects beyond that in mind.

Offline Centarion

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Re: Items of Power as Animals?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2012, 04:16:13 PM »
When I said "there should really be not a mechanical distinction between attacks on the character and the pet, so again it all just uses the players stress and consequences," what I meant was that since, in combat at least, the pet should be limited to being in the same zone as the character (especially if making fists attack for the character), you should just not have bad guys attacking the animal (a different flavor of Indestructible), and they should instead just attack the character.

If the entire purpose of the familiar is to act as a source of powers that the character otherwise would not have (and that work off the character's skills), then it makes a perfectly fine IoP. If you want it to have its own actions in combat/have its own skills/have its own stress, then you need to start looking for house rules like the minion rules linked earlier in this thread.