The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

How about because (when he's the Bob we all know and love) he hates being like that, so he was glad that Harry wouldn't be asking him to keep flipping back and forth in order to plumb that side of him for knowledge?

It's already clear that Harry won't be doing that before harry gives him the specific command to have those memories sleep with the fishes, though. 

To me, it seems like an order, once given to Bob, is permanent, with the exception that future orders can counter previous ones. So if he was so ordered, then it would take an order from a future master to overrule it, potentially giving Bob a much longer period of time before the memories arise again.

Except that it took very specific and direct orders from Harry to bring those memories out in the first place. They're not something it appears that Bob does not have under control or has to worry about slipping out in the general run of things.

The difference between Free Will and just Will seem somewhat ambiguous, though. We know that Bob does have Will, just not Free Will. So with the understanding that whomever holds the skull controls Bob, once the skull is put down, who's to say that Bob cannot use Will to pick between two equally valid owners? Cowl did hold him last, but Harry was closer and actively seeking to reconnect their bond.

That model also works, I'm not arguing against that.  I am arguing that a) it is not the only model that works, and b) precisely how non-free will works and what Bob has in that context is really pretty murky sfaict so i am reluctant to base arguments too strongly on it.

How could he fake any of it? If he cut off all of his relevant memories, then he wouldn't have anything with which to fake.

He's very intelligent, knows a great deal about magic theory in general, and, depending on when Cowl asks him what, could well have any information he can gain from watching Grevane perform the Darkhallow to call on.  Even without that last, it does not stretch my suspension of disbelief that Bob would be smart enough to make up a plausible means for the Darkhallow out of whole cloth.

More to the point, why would he even want to fake it, given that that would be disobeying his master, the one who was holding his skull?

We know that becoming Bob's master is not just simply an issue of whoever last handled the skull; otherwise, there would have been issues with Murphy in "Something Borrowed".  I do not believe Cowl is ever Bob's master; every other change of master that happens to Bob occurs when the previous master is dead, and I can totally believe Bob still being bound to Harry and faking it for Cowl.

What was your theory for why he didn't just take Bob right then?

In GP ?

if you think Cowl actually wants to carry out the Darkhallow, well, it takes a lot of preparation.  It needs the Erlking book to be found, it needs the exhibition of ancient Native American stuff that Corpsetaker is preparing in the guise of Bartleby as a source of ancient zombies, it needs the boundary between Earth and the NN to be ripped up by the tormented ghost stuff in GP. (Which, come to think of it, indicates that somebody might well have been working in Darkhallow prep prior to GP; the tormented-ghosts plan is kind of overengineered for merely getting Bianca's revenge on Harry, it has a very specific side-effect of ripping up the boundary, and mavra is right there as a suspect.)  Cowl expresses active disdain for Kemmler and the Kemmlerites, and what we see of him elsewhere has no necromancy involved, so I can believe he has no real need of Bob until his plan is ready.

If, like me, you believe that Cowl and probably Mavra played the entirety of DB primarily to have the White Council take on Grevane and Corpsetaker and secondarily to mislead the Red Court into thinking they were about to have a necrogod ally, therefore over-reaching by trespassing on Faerie under the impression they were about to obliterate the White Council, and ensuingly getting the living daylights kicked out of them by Summer in PG, then Cowl leaving Bob with Harry makes even more sense as not tipping his hand and leaving all the pieces in the right place.

I'd also note that one consequence of the  "Cowl was associated with the Justin/Maggie/Lord Raith cabal" notion is that it could mean Cowl has known where Bob is all along; first through knowing Justin had him, and then through knowing Harry had survived and the Council had not destroyed Bob.  (From what Luccio says about Bob in SmF, finding he had survived Kemmler's defeat after all would have been major news in the Council, so the lack of that news when Justin dies would tell Cowl someone else had retrieved Bob, and Harry's the logical prime suspect.)

[Sheaman3773]

It's already clear that Harry won't be doing that before harry gives him the specific command to have those memories sleep with the fishes, though. 

Because nobody likes having a solid reason and confirmation that they won't have to do something that they are afraid to do?

Except that it took very specific and direct orders from Harry to bring those memories out in the first place. They're not something it appears that Bob does not have under control or has to worry about slipping out in the general run of things.

Yes, but presumably Harry has never told Bob "tell me everything that you can think of that could bring me more power" or "what do you know that would let me be powerful quickly?" I doubt that the black hats and psychopaths that Bob typically works for would let that possibility pass them by. And if you were going to ask why it hasn't happened before, then, I would respond that Justin was the only person who held Bob since Kemmler's final death, and presumably he had other plans for power, ones that involved Outsiders instead.

That model also works, I'm not arguing against that.  I am arguing that a) it is not the only model that works, and b) precisely how non-free will works and what Bob has in that context is really pretty murky sfaict so i am reluctant to base arguments too strongly on it.

Ah, I see. So what do you see as significant or long-term differences between our theories? If your answer is nothing, then I would suggest we drop this line of discussion.

He's very intelligent, knows a great deal about magic theory in general, and, depending on when Cowl asks him what, could well have any information he can gain from watching Grevane perform the Darkhallow to call on.  Even without that last, it does not stretch my suspension of disbelief that Bob would be smart enough to make up a plausible means for the Darkhallow out of whole cloth.

So then, when Bob told Harry in the beginning that without those memories he wouldn't be able to help Harry at all, why didn't he start spitting out theories right then? Or a few minutes later, after he had recovered some equilibrium?

We know that becoming Bob's master is not just simply an issue of whoever last handled the skull; otherwise, there would have been issues with Murphy in "Something Borrowed".  I do not believe Cowl is ever Bob's master; every other change of master that happens to Bob occurs when the previous master is dead, and I can totally believe Bob still being bound to Harry and faking it for Cowl.

It does not appear to be beyond question that the holder of the skull has to have some sort of magical talent in order to actually become the owner.

In GP ?

if you think Cowl actually wants to carry out the Darkhallow, well, it takes a lot of preparation.  It needs the Erlking book to be found, it needs the exhibition of ancient Native American stuff that Corpsetaker is preparing in the guise of Bartleby as a source of ancient zombies, it needs the boundary between Earth and the NN to be ripped up by the tormented ghost stuff in GP. (Which, come to think of it, indicates that somebody might well have been working in Darkhallow prep prior to GP; the tormented-ghosts plan is kind of overengineered for merely getting Bianca's revenge on Harry, it has a very specific side-effect of ripping up the boundary, and mavra is right there as a suspect.)  Cowl expresses active disdain for Kemmler and the Kemmlerites, and what we see of him elsewhere has no necromancy involved, so I can believe he has no real need of Bob until his plan is ready.

Given that the author is still alive and that furthermore two copies of the book were found in the same small bookstore, I don't really think that it would take that long to find a copy of the book. The Native American artifacts were useful, for a certainty, but not only do I not think it essential, there are loads of other gatherings of important artifacts, some of which that should have already been in the Museum. Also, are you suggesting that the boundary still hasn't recovered from GP to DB, what, four years later? And, to be fair, Cowl and Kumori were right there too. I would think making sure that he had the tool he needed early on would make a lot of sense--for all Harry would know, Bianca had stashed it somewhere separate from the rest of his gear, and for all Cowl knew, Harry kept Bob stashed behind layers and layers of wards. He really did luck out on Harry removing him from his defenses...

If, like me, you believe that Cowl and probably Mavra played the entirety of DB primarily to have the White Council take on Grevane and Corpsetaker and secondarily to mislead the Red Court into thinking they were about to have a necrogod ally, therefore over-reaching by trespassing on Faerie under the impression they were about to obliterate the White Council, and ensuingly getting the living daylights kicked out of them by Summer in PG, then Cowl leaving Bob with Harry makes even more sense as not tipping his hand and leaving all the pieces in the right place.

I'm not sure that I buy your rationale, but you do at least have one. Why would Cowl and/or Mavra and/or the BC want the RC smacked around? To extend the conflict?

I'd also note that one consequence of the  "Cowl was associated with the Justin/Maggie/Lord Raith cabal" notion is that it could mean Cowl has known where Bob is all along; first through knowing Justin had him, and then through knowing Harry had survived and the Council had not destroyed Bob.  (From what Luccio says about Bob in SmF, finding he had survived Kemmler's defeat after all would have been major news in the Council, so the lack of that news when Justin dies would tell Cowl someone else had retrieved Bob, and Harry's the logical prime suspect.)

Granted, and  I suppose that that suspicion could have been confirmed in GP.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Because nobody likes having a solid reason and confirmation that they won't have to do something that they are afraid to do?

Unless that command enables Bob to sever those memories permanently, it's not a solid reason and confirmation, though.  Even if Harry calmed the heck down and went off to live up a mountain and not get involved with the rest of the universe, Bob knows from the beginning that he will still outlive him; with the risks Harry takes, it could well be a lot sooner than that.

Yes, but presumably Harry has never told Bob "tell me everything that you can think of that could bring me more power" or "what do you know that would let me be powerful quickly?"

With the sort of fights Harry gets into, I can totally see Bob worrying that Harry might ask him this sooner or later.

Ah, I see. So what do you see as significant or long-term differences between our theories? If your answer is nothing, then I would suggest we drop this line of discussion.

It could make a big difference wrt further disposition of Bob, and it makes more sense to me of why Harry thanks Bob.

So then, when Bob told Harry in the beginning that without those memories he wouldn't be able to help Harry at all, why didn't he start spitting out theories right then? Or a few minutes later, after he had recovered some equilibrium?

Because he has no stake in deceiving Harry.  There is a difference between "Bob can come out with plausible-sounding explanations for the Darkhallow enough to keep Cowl happy" and "Bob can come up with the actual explanation of what's going on to help Harry", and I meant the former, I am sorry if I was not clear.  In the former case Bob, still loyal to Harry, has a strong motive to feed Cowl misinformation that might get him killed, in the latter, his motive leads in exactly the opposite direction.

It does not appear to be beyond question that the holder of the skull has to have some sort of magical talent in order to actually become the owner.

I thought we had WoJ that Butters did not have any sort of magical talent.

Given that the author is still alive and that furthermore two copies of the book were found in the same small bookstore, I don't really think that it would take that long to find a copy of the book. The Native American artifacts were useful, for a certainty, but not only do I not think it essential, there are loads of other gatherings of important artifacts, some of which that should have already been in the Museum. Also, are you suggesting that the boundary still hasn't recovered from GP to DB, what, four years later?

Yes, I am. I believe Lash alludes to this being the case in DB.  Furthermore, I believe the long-term damage done to that barrier is why the events of SK with the Stone Table happen around Chicago specifically, and why other supernaturals focus their major evil plans on Chicago quite so much in general despite it having a scary wizard protector.  One of my strong expectations for the BAT is that we are going to see Chicago as a whole fall into the NN for a bit - like unto the incident with Milwaukee (iirc) that Harry alludes to in SF.

And, to be fair, Cowl and Kumori were right there too. I would think making sure that he had the tool he needed early on would make a lot of sense--for all Harry would know, Bianca had stashed it somewhere separate from the rest of his gear, and for all Cowl knew, Harry kept Bob stashed behind layers and layers of wards. He really did luck out on Harry removing him from his defenses...

Unless you regard Harry's place coming under siege and Harry managing to/needing to escape as a thing that's within Cowl's power to set up.  I don't think that's entirely impossible, if one believes Cowl's allusions to working with Grevane and Corpsetaker.

I'm not sure that I buy your rationale, but you do at least have one. Why would Cowl and/or Mavra and/or the BC want the RC smacked around? To extend the conflict?

I can buy Cowl, and whatever Outsider-oriented axis of power Cowl works for (and maybe Mavra also), having a campaign objective centred on weakening, damaging, or taking control of so many supernatural power groups as possible.  That would fit with prolonging the White Council/Red Court war to maximise the damage done to both sides; it would fit with insinuating the athame into Winter, which we know from the text was provided via Cowl, and which is the most plausible vector we have for whatever form of damage happens to Lea between SK and DB and to Mab thereafter; it would fit with attempting to foment a coup in the White Court that placed one of his agents near the top, and when that failed and he was exposed, with devastating the upper echelons of the White Court with uberghouls.

[Sheaman3773]

Unless that command enables Bob to sever those memories permanently, it's not a solid reason and confirmation, though.  Even if Harry calmed the heck down and went off to live up a mountain and not get involved with the rest of the universe, Bob knows from the beginning that he will still outlive him; with the risks Harry takes, it could well be a lot sooner than that.

My meaning is that I thought that with a command like "Never remember that again," it might be that Bob would require a specific order to countermand the previous one, while Harry just refusing to call upon it again would leave it open to any general query about shortcuts to power.

With the sort of fights Harry gets into, I can totally see Bob worrying that Harry might ask him this sooner or later.

Perhaps, but I think it's pretty fair to say that Harry fears that aspect of himself pretty strongly. Bob might not understand it, but I would think that he would at least recognize it.

Because he has no stake in deceiving Harry.  There is a difference between "Bob can come out with plausible-sounding explanations for the Darkhallow enough to keep Cowl happy" and "Bob can come up with the actual explanation of what's going on to help Harry", and I meant the former, I am sorry if I was not clear.  In the former case Bob, still loyal to Harry, has a strong motive to feed Cowl misinformation that might get him killed, in the latter, his motive leads in exactly the opposite direction.

Aaah, I see, I missed that the thrust of your point was that Bob was frantically BSing to save his incorporeal hide. Gotcha.

I thought we had WoJ that Butters did not have any sort of magical talent.

Ah, that would be what I like to call a mental hiccup. I withdraw my objection, for the most part, and acknowledge that it could be based on the previous owner being dead. There are other possibilities, though, like intent to take ownership.

Yes, I am. I believe Lash alludes to this being the case in DB.  Furthermore, I believe the long-term damage done to that barrier is why the events of SK with the Stone Table happen around Chicago specifically, and why other supernaturals focus their major evil plans on Chicago quite so much in general despite it having a scary wizard protector.  One of my strong expectations for the BAT is that we are going to see Chicago as a whole fall into the NN for a bit - like unto the incident with Milwaukee (iirc) that Harry alludes to in SF.

Two points. 1) Could you supply the quote for that allusion? 2) That's a marvelous theory, that I shall have to consider more fully.

Unless you regard Harry's place coming under siege and Harry managing to/needing to escape as a thing that's within Cowl's power to set up.  I don't think that's entirely impossible, if one believes Cowl's allusions to working with Grevane and Corpsetaker.

I personally don't think that he did set it up, but I can buy that he could have done so if he found it necessary.

I can buy Cowl, and whatever Outsider-oriented axis of power Cowl works for (and maybe Mavra also), having a campaign objective centred on weakening, damaging, or taking control of so many supernatural power groups as possible.  That would fit with prolonging the White Council/Red Court war to maximise the damage done to both sides; it would fit with insinuating the athame into Winter, which we know from the text was provided via Cowl, and which is the most plausible vector we have for whatever form of damage happens to Lea between SK and DB and to Mab thereafter; it would fit with attempting to foment a coup in the White Court that placed one of his agents near the top, and when that failed and he was exposed, with devastating the upper echelons of the White Court with uberghouls.

I agree with you that that seems to be an objective of the BC, but the idea that they are predicted everything that happened is a bit ludicrous, I think. I'd be more inclined to think that they built that in as a Plan B, with Plan A including crushing the WC and then immediately turning around and crushing the RC. Plus, then the BC would have a protogodling on their side, which is hard to top.

[kytheros]

For the record my thinking is not very original on little chicago, i think lea did it or mab did it because of lea's obligations. Of course there is another wizard who spend a considerable portion of her time in harry's basement. Her skill set is entirely different from harry's as well. Perhaps she saw something that was intuitive to her that someone not versed in the subtle arts would have missed. For instance I am a prety decent hand at building computers but my friend bridget works for dell, she often fixes things i did not realise i had missed and considers them so beneath her notice that she rarely mentions it when i have something on my work bench and she is bored.

Little Chicago was built and fixed in a timeframe when Harry and Bob (and Lea/Mab) are the only known people with adequate magical backgrounds and knowledge who were in his lab.

[breck]

Harry began little chicago some time after dead beat using funds from his new warden's salary. It was finished about six months later. The first trial run in proven guilty did not work, harry was looking for molly. Harry used it successfully in white night and cowl promptly breaks it when he senses harry prying in. Small favor is the next time it works, harry uses mister to keep summer running all over chicago. The fix to little chicago happened some time in proven guilty, so that safely rules molly out. Or does it? Just throwing a bone to mrs duck's molly = mab theory. Just wanted to flesh out the timeline a bit on when it was fixed, i was a bit fuzzy about it myself i was thinking it got fixed around white night because that was when i remembered it working.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Little Chicago was built and fixed in a timeframe when Harry and Bob (and Lea/Mab) are the only known people with adequate magical backgrounds and knowledge who were in his lab.

But also at a point when Thomas and Murphy both have keys to Harry's apartment and wards, yes ?  So basically any player who could persuade or magically compel either of the above is a suspect.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

My meaning is that I thought that with a command like "Never remember that again," it might be that Bob would require a specific order to countermand the previous one, while Harry just refusing to call upon it again would leave it open to any general query about shortcuts to power.

Possibly, but I'm not remembering any other supporting evidence for that model off the top of my head.

Perhaps, but I think it's pretty fair to say that Harry fears that aspect of himself pretty strongly.

Indeed, but he does seem to have a tendency to get into situations where looking for extra power is necessary despite his preferences.

Two points. 1) Could you supply the quote for that allusion?

Which allusion ?

Lash telling Harry about the ingredients for the Darkhallow, I was slightly misremembering: DB, pb, p.373, Harry reports it to Butters and we don't see it directly. (I suspect there is something in there we need not to see, fwiw.). "The last several years have seen some serious magical turbulence around Chicago.  Kemmler's disciples can put the turbulence to work for them too." is the line I am reading as indicating that the boundary between our world and the NN is still in flux, and that that is being useful to Kemmlerites, and that that could have been planned by Mavra

If you mean the Unseelie Incursion of 199-something when Milwaukee vanished, I am pretty sure it's in SF but it's an aside of Harry's and I'm not at all sure where in the text; maybe we should ask one of our betas with searchable e-texts.

I agree with you that that seems to be an objective of the BC, but the idea that they are predicted everything that happened is a bit ludicrous, I think.

Predicting that annoyed Faerie will exact payback does not seem to me to take very much effort, and as for the vampires making the decision to trespass on Faerie in the first place, I don't think that takes prediction so much as manipulation.  The Red Court sorcerous auxiliaries are, in this model, working with Cowl, and may well be able to sell the Reds on that being a safe thing to do if they expect to have a god-level protector imminently.

I'd be more inclined to think that they built that in as a Plan B, with Plan A including crushing the WC and then immediately turning around and crushing the RC. Plus, then the BC would have a protogodling on their side, which is hard to top.

I remain unconvinced that this is actually workable, though.  By what Harry says about gods in general in PG, most of them seem to have been actively exiled from Earth into the far NN; it would not surprise me if the process of transformation into deity was followed nigh-instantly by removal from the theatre of operations, and if Cowl knows this and the Reds do not.

[kytheros]

But also at a point when Thomas and Murphy both have keys to Harry's apartment and wards, yes ?  So basically any player who could persuade or magically compel either of the above is a suspect.

But said player would need to know of Little Chicago's existence. Oh, I suppose that someone might have had Thomas and/or Murphy let them in for a look around and spotted Little Chicago ... but they'd have had to do so (a) during time periods that Thomas/Murphy would not be missed, (b) times that Dresden wasn't around, and (c) probably multiple times in order to gain sufficient understanding of Little Chicago's construction - plus they'd need some way to not get noticed by Bob or Mouse. Then the question becomes, if you're going to have Thomas/Murphy secretly let you into Dresden's place, so you're probably not friendly with Dresden - why are you fixing Little Chicago?

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

But said player would need to know of Little Chicago's existence.

I'm unconvinced that's unlikely or difficult, if we take Lara's intelligence report on Harry's wards in BR as reasonably representative of the information-gathering capacities of major powers under the Accords.

Oh, I suppose that someone might have had Thomas and/or Murphy let them in for a look around and spotted Little Chicago ... but they'd have had to do so (a) during time periods that Thomas/Murphy would not be missed, (b) times that Dresden wasn't around, and (c) probably multiple times in order to gain sufficient understanding of Little Chicago's construction - plus they'd need some way to not get noticed by Bob or Mouse.

We have a sizable timespan in the middle of PG when neither Bob nor Mouse are home, fwiw.

Then the question becomes, if you're going to have Thomas/Murphy secretly let you into Dresden's place, so you're probably not friendly with Dresden - why are you fixing Little Chicago?

I think the logic there is back to front; fixing Little Chicago seems only to fit with a benevolent approach, or at least having more use for a living Harry than otherwise (which could be any number of the hostiles we have seen in the series more minded to use him for their own ends than kill him.)  As to why a friendly would want to do it secretly, well, maybe it's a friendly whom Harry would not recognise as a friendly, or be readily persuadable to recognise as a friendly while up to his eyes in other plot elements.

[Sheaman3773]

Possibly, but I'm not remembering any other supporting evidence for that model off the top of my head.

How about how Bob made Harry order him to unlock those memories in the first place?

Indeed, but he does seem to have a tendency to get into situations where looking for extra power is necessary despite his preferences.

Granted.

Which allusion ?

Lash telling Harry about the ingredients for the Darkhallow, I was slightly misremembering: DB, pb, p.373, Harry reports it to Butters and we don't see it directly. (I suspect there is something in there we need not to see, fwiw.). "The last several years have seen some serious magical turbulence around Chicago.  Kemmler's disciples can put the turbulence to work for them too." is the line I am reading as indicating that the boundary between our world and the NN is still in flux, and that that is being useful to Kemmlerites, and that that could have been planned by Mavra

If you mean the Unseelie Incursion of 199-something when Milwaukee vanished, I am pretty sure it's in SF but it's an aside of Harry's and I'm not at all sure where in the text; maybe we should ask one of our betas with searchable e-texts.

No, I remember the Unseelie Incursion one, that was discussed the first time Harry was describing Susan/Arcane in SF.

Ah, I see. Well, while it is certainly interesting enough that I'll be including it in my fanfic if it ever gets off the ground, I'm not completely convinced that it is canon. I had assumed previously that he was talking about all of the crap that kept going down in Chicago. But if you're right, and Mavra directly planned it that way, why make sure it's in Chicago? Because she knew that she'd have access to blackmail material on the local White Hat at just the right time? Though...I suppose you could argue that Mavra, working with Cowl, delayed the instigation of the Darkhallow until she had the blackmail material needed to get Harry involved...in order to create a situation in which the RC exposed themselves, in order to extend the war further...but how could they have known that Harry would manage to stop Cowl just in time? I'll buy that Cowl was sure that he could stop Grevane in time, but they counted on Harry recovering, breaking a Law of Magic so that he could survive to get close enough to the funnel to stop Cowl? It was really close--what was their backup plan if the Erlking had just killed Dresden right off or whatnot, pretend to fub it up at the last second?

Predicting that annoyed Faerie will exact payback does not seem to me to take very much effort, and as for the vampires making the decision to trespass on Faerie in the first place, I don't think that takes prediction so much as manipulation.  The Red Court sorcerous auxiliaries are, in this model, working with Cowl, and may well be able to sell the Reds on that being a safe thing to do if they expect to have a god-level protector imminently.

I meant more of what I said above, about how close Cowl got to god-mode.

I remain unconvinced that this is actually workable, though.  By what Harry says about gods in general in PG, most of them seem to have been actively exiled from Earth into the far NN; it would not surprise me if the process of transformation into deity was followed nigh-instantly by removal from the theatre of operations, and if Cowl knows this and the Reds do not.

So I ask again, why would Cowl play it so close if he was never intending to actually ascend? Barring any sort of time traveling theories, of course.

[lovejoy69]

...
Which allusion ?

Lash telling Harry about the ingredients for the Darkhallow, I was slightly misremembering: DB, pb, p.373, Harry reports it to Butters and we don't see it directly. (I suspect there is something in there we need not to see, fwiw.). "The last several years have seen some serious magical turbulence around Chicago.  Kemmler's disciples can put the turbulence to work for them too." is the line I am reading as indicating that the boundary between our world and the NN is still in flux, and that that is being useful to Kemmlerites, and that that could have been planned by Mavra

If you mean the Unseelie Incursion of 199-something when Milwaukee vanished, I am pretty sure it's in SF but it's an aside of Harry's and I'm not at all sure where in the text; maybe we should ask one of our betas with searchable e-texts.

Not a beta, and in terms of the weakened barrier these may not be what you were looking for, but here goes for what they're worth:
- Storm Front, chapter five, paperback p. 57 in my edition: ..."the Unseelie Incursion of 1994, when the entire city of Milwaukee had vanished for two hours. Gone."

- In Dead Beat, I don't remember any explicit discussions about whether the barrier between worlds has continued to be weaker than it ought to be ever since GP, but that's not to say that it isn't in the text somewhere. What I do remember is in chapter three, paperback p. 33 in my edition, Bob and Harry discuss how the Nightmare and Bianca had tormented ghosts to weaken the barrier leading up to that Halloween. And in chapter ten, paperback p. 106-continuing in my edition, Mort tells Harry that he himself has been having dreams which is an unusual occurrence for him, and that ghosts won't talk to him about what they're sensing, which usually means they're being made very upset about black magical workings. And in chapter twenty-six, Harry and Thomas talk about the past few days' disruptions to weaken the barrier but don't specifically say that the barrier has been kept abnormally weak ever since GP.

[kytheros]

    But said player would need to know of Little Chicago's existence.

I'm unconvinced that's unlikely or difficult, if we take Lara's intelligence report on Harry's wards in BR as reasonably representative of the information-gathering capacities of major powers under the Accords.

Harry's wards are one thing. They're on the outside, and nothing's concealing them. Little Chicago was in his basement, behind the wards, the only way to see in there is to physically eyeball the place, somehow scry the place(through the wards), or brave Lea's garden.
Sure, if you're keeping an eye on Dresden you can find out he's getting deliveries of model buildings and if you've got a tail on him you learn he's wandering around the city poking at places. That still doesn't tell you what he's doing if you're not highly knowledgeable about thaumaturgy.

    Oh, I suppose that someone might have had Thomas and/or Murphy let them in for a look around and spotted Little Chicago ... but they'd have had to do so (a) during time periods that Thomas/Murphy would not be missed, (b) times that Dresden wasn't around, and (c) probably multiple times in order to gain sufficient understanding of Little Chicago's construction - plus they'd need some way to not get noticed by Bob or Mouse.

We have a sizable timespan in the middle of PG when neither Bob nor Mouse are home, fwiw.

While, strictly speaking, true ... that's also a timespan when both Thomas and Murphy would have been noticed as missing. Also ... that's probably not enough time to figure out what Little Chicago is, how it was built, notice something is wrong with it, figure out how to fix it, starting cold - plus bypassing the wards, all without being noticed. Little Chicago took Dresden 6 months of work, plus an unknown and indeterminate amount of planning and preparatory work. I think the person who fixed Little Chicago would have needed way more time than was available in PG, they would have needed to start studying/learning up on Little Chicago for a lengthy stretch of time, possibly ever since Dresden started.

    Then the question becomes, if you're going to have Thomas/Murphy secretly let you into Dresden's place, so you're probably not friendly with Dresden - why are you fixing Little Chicago?

I think the logic there is back to front; fixing Little Chicago seems only to fit with a benevolent approach, or at least having more use for a living Harry than otherwise (which could be any number of the hostiles we have seen in the series more minded to use him for their own ends than kill him.)  As to why a friendly would want to do it secretly, well, maybe it's a friendly whom Harry would not recognise as a friendly, or be readily persuadable to recognise as a friendly while up to his eyes in other plot elements.

They still need to know about it. Though the motive for secrecy is believable, yet they'd probably need to have messed with Thomas/Murphy's mind if they used one of them to get in, since nothing was ever said. Hmm, I suppose one of their ward-bypassing talismans could have been used to make a copy at some point, but the problems of Mouse and Bob are still there.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

How about how Bob made Harry order him to unlock those memories in the first place?

Indeed, but Bob then goes back to status quo ante wrt the memories when Harry says the conversation is over, is my read on it.  Telling him to cut them off goes above and beyond that, and Bob thanking harry for it seems to me to confirm that.

Ah, I see. Well, while it is certainly interesting enough that I'll be including it in my fanfic if it ever gets off the ground, I'm not completely convinced that it is canon. I had assumed previously that he was talking about all of the crap that kept going down in Chicago. But if you're right, and Mavra directly planned it that way, why make sure it's in Chicago? Because she knew that she'd have access to blackmail material on the local White Hat at just the right time?

I think Harry's location in Chicago is why all this stuff happens in Chicago in the first place, yes.  I read Mavra playing Bianca, in GP, as well as Harry specifically to get the war started, as well as to start the shredding of the border.

Though...I suppose you could argue that Mavra, working with Cowl, delayed the instigation of the Darkhallow until she had the blackmail material needed to get Harry involved..

I don't believe the Word of Kemmler showed up by coincidence.  I can entirely believe Cowl or Mavra was sitting on it for all the time since whenever Kemmler died.  I am also firmly convinced that the entire plot of BR is designed to get that blackmail material; I am convinced that the image of Death Harry sees with the Sight behind Kincaid is Mavra or a Mavra-puppet junior Black Court vampire with a Polaroid behind a veil.

but how could they have known that Harry would manage to stop Cowl just in time?

They don't have to, sfaict.  Nobody needs to stop Cowl if Cowl never intended to actually go through with the Darkhallow in the first place.

Looking at the situation before Harry arrives at Darkhallow Ground Zero, Grevane's running the ritual.  If Harry happens not to show up, Cowl just has to hit Grevane about as hard as he hits Carlos in the actual text, knock him out with a few seconds to spare, and that's it for the Darkhallow.  Escaping from a collapsing Darkhallow at very short notice is something we definitely see Cowl do, and have evidence for a possible explanation of, I think, in Cowl's quick vanishing trick at the end of his first appearance in DB (probably not a veil, because we know from FM that invisibility does not work on wolves, and the smell of mildew left when Cowl vanishes seems to me to connect on to the smell of the bit of NN Peabody runs to in TC; my conclusion is that Cowl is [remarkably good at NN quick getaways.)

I think once Harry has actually shown up, Cowl is improvising on a "if I have a witness that i can convince that I a) seriously meant this and b) failed, then I get the added bonus that a) nobody looks for other possible motivations and b) the White Council thinks I am dead" grounds.

It was really close--what was their backup plan if the Erlking had just killed Dresden right off or whatnot, pretend to fub it up at the last second?

Without Harry having Sue to hand to get that close, it does not seem to me there'll be any Council witnesses close enough to see Cowl and Kumori doing a last-minute bunk.  From the distance Luccio and Morgan are, it can just look like the ritual catastrophically fails, and with no necrogod produced, I'm not seeing anything suspicious about the bullet being dodged - it's not as if anyone's reinvented the Darkhallow without Kemmler in the past forty-to-sixty years, so "this is a difficult thing that they screwed up" looks plausible to me.  (Harry thinks it's surprisingly simple once he's actually seen it; to my mind the "surprising" rather than the "simple" is a better metric of how the rest of the Council are likely to assume things went down.  Also bearing in mind that what the Council have by way of CSI is stretched to its limits in the much more controlled environment of laFortier's murder in TC, and seems very unlike;y to be able to give any information to change that assessment here.)

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Harry's wards are one thing. They're on the outside, and nothing's concealing them. Little Chicago was in his basement, behind the wards, the only way to see in there is to physically eyeball the place, somehow scry the place(through the wards), or brave Lea's garden.

Lara has got good enough intel on his wards to know that if Harry goes into lockdown as per DM he won't be able to get out again and therefore he would be the only option for Thomas to feed on.  That does not read to me like they're a perfect defence against deducing information from/through.

We have a sizable timespan in the middle of PG when neither Bob nor Mouse are home, fwiw.

While, strictly speaking, true ... that's also a timespan when both Thomas and Murphy would have been noticed as missing.

IIRC, we have Harry's lunch with Lily and Maeve, several hours of stuff at the hotel with Murphy around at the beginning of it, Harry getting knocked out and captured by Madrigal, and then Thomas appearing to save the day.  Depending on how long Harry is unconscious and captive, that's a span of a good few hours with Murphy unaccounted for and longer for Thomas.
 

Also ... that's probably not enough time to figure out what Little Chicago is, how it was built, notice something is wrong with it, figure out how to fix it, starting cold - plus bypassing the wards, all without being noticed. Little Chicago took Dresden 6 months of work, plus an unknown and indeterminate amount of planning and preparatory work. I think the person who fixed Little Chicago would have needed way more time than was available in PG, they would have needed to start studying/learning up on Little Chicago for a lengthy stretch of time, possibly ever since Dresden started.

Bob sees the change and deduces what it will do in moments. 

Also, if you believe as I do that Cowl in WN is pulling his punches to not kill Harry while looking like he barely missed killing Harry, that entails deducing a fair bit about Little Chicago's capacities in a matter of a few seconds.

Little Chicago is a major undertaking in a direction of magic that Harry's really not focused on before.  I think it taking him six months is comparable to Molly's slow progress with shields, frex.  I can believe a Senior Council level talent like Cowl with some experience in that form of magic being able to figure it out and fix it on a scale of hours.  I can believe an entity at Mab levels of superhuman being able to do it in minutes.  (The analogy that seems apt here is that I have been doing a particular subset of computer-programming-type things professionally for close on twenty-five years, and there have been times in my particular field of expertise when I've been presented with a specific unfamiliar-to-me problem using basic principles I know well, and have solved or made more progress on it in ten minutes than people without that have been able to in months.)