The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread
Sheaman3773:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on September 16, 2012, 05:47:15 PM ---Noe that seems counter-Occamian to me. I don't even believe in Cowl-Bob; Bob's already been ordered to be rid of his evil necroself by that point, he winks at Harry, so I am sure he is faking it.
--- End quote ---
The first part of your post, I agree with. The second...
The way that Bob explained it to Harry read to me as though at first he just planned to never access those memories again. And what happens almost immediately afterwards? Cowl comes along and, once he has his hands on the skull, orders Bob to release the memories again. Bob, despite promising to never release those memories again, has to do so anyways. After Harry recovers Bob, Bob thinks about it and decides that he can't follow that order while still keeping those memories, so he cut them off from himself.
As for the wink, I always thought that yes, whosoever has his hands on the skull is the owner, but while the skull is both on the ground and by an old owner, he can pick which one to listen to. Though, that does smack of free will, which Bob doesn't have...but if he had cut those memories out of himself by that point, he wouldn't have had the knowledge of the Darkhollow to tell Cowl.
Did we ever get a solid reason as to how Cowl knew Harry had Bob?
KevinSig:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on September 16, 2012, 05:47:15 PM ---I don't even believe in Cowl-Bob; Bob's already been ordered to be rid of his evil necroself by that point, he winks at Harry, so I am sure he is faking it.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---"Pretty good idea, Harry, talking to me on the ground. I didn't want to work for him anyway, but as long as he had the skull... Well you know how it is."
--- End quote ---
I don't get your reasoning. Cowl Bob knew how to perform the Darkhallow. We know that Bob states in Ghost Story that he literally cut those memories out of him. In this quote, Bob himself states that he had to work for Cowl & we know that Bob's personality gets shaped by his master. (Via secondhand WOJ)
--- Quote ---2009 Ann Arbor signing
Why is Bob the way he is and will we find out why he's hated so by the Fey
Jim mentioned that Bob takes on some of the personality of his "master" so when he came to Harry. Harry was about 16 years old. Sooo that's why he's so smart alecky and into girls so much. As for the Fey comment mentioned we will find out in later books.
--- End quote ---
Ergo, my conclusion is that Harry talking to Bob reminded Bob of Harry's earlier order, not to recover those memories. Bob reasserts control, because that order was broken.
I don't believe just talking to Bob, without having the prior order in place, would have been enough for Bob to reassert control. Otherwise, Bob would be showing something like Free Will in choosing which master he preferred.
From what Jim's said about Free Will, I can't see it working like this.
--- Quote ---2011 Marscon
Could you explain free will to us from Bob’s perspective?
Free will from Bob’s perspective? Bob thinks free will is a complete illusion, uh, since he doesn’t really have it. Um, it’s a conceit that mortals have to make themselves feel like they can be in control of things. Uh, but really, it doesn’t actually exist, that’s Bob’s take on it. But then again, Bob doesn’t really have free will, he’s sort of…
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---No free will ever? Or no free will to disobey when commanded? I don't know that it's possible to have intellect without will. Well, then again, most of us have to make decisions about what is true, and what isn't, or what to remember and forget - but a spirit of intellect is mostly just a talking library, right? A storehouse. Although, Bob seems to also understand what he knows... I'm getting over my head.
Well, I don't want to hand out too much outside the context of an actual story. But within the context of the Dresden books, Bob isn't, like, an actual mortal person.
Mortals are the ones who have free will, the ability to choose what they're doing, to choose between right and wrong. Without getting too thickly into the underlying philosophy, that's the thing that separates, for example, mankind from the angels--the angels didn't get the same kind of choice about their existance, and what they would do with it. Mortals get the chance to make all kinds of decisions, and can change their minds, well, at will. Other creatures, though they may look like people, don't get the same range of choices about who and what they will be.
Mab, for example, is Mab. She /can't/ show up and suddenly be merciful, generous, patient and kind. It would never so much as occur to her to do so, because it isn't a fundamental part of her nature, and she /can't/ choose to change it. She simply isn't capable. She doesn't have free will in the same way that people do. It's related to the difference between having a soul and not having a soul, as well. Without a soul, you aren't free to choose how you will shape that soul. You just stay what you are.
But that's getting way off the subject of Bob. I mean, don't you think that if he had totally free will, he'd be out of the skull all the time, hitching rides in people's heads on their way into strip bars or something? There's a reason he obeys Harry, and it's not purely because Harry offers him shelter from a gruesome demise. It's a part of who and what he is.
--- End quote ---
Source
TheCuriousFan:
--- Quote ---From what Jim's said about Free Will, I can't see it working like this.
--- End quote ---
Isn't free will more like the ability to change your nature rather than independent thought?
Sheaman3773:
--- Quote from: TheCuriousFan on September 16, 2012, 11:04:57 PM ---Isn't free will more like the ability to change your nature rather than independent thought?
--- End quote ---
Yes, but part of Bob's nature is to obey. Otherwise he'd leave the skull to go check out strip bars all the time, instead of making deals with Harry to do so.
KevinSig:
--- Quote from: Sheaman3773 on September 16, 2012, 11:13:52 PM ---Yes, but part of Bob's nature is to obey. Otherwise he'd leave the skull to go check out strip bars all the time, instead of making deals with Harry to do so.
--- End quote ---
Pretty much. If your so inclined, go back to my prior post. I've added a few WOJ. I'm on my iPad tonight, so I posted before getting them. On more than one occasion, I've made the mistake of trying to gather quotes before I post, only to find what I'd written erased because of the limited browser memory.
Hence, why I added the corresponding WOJ after the fact.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version