Author Topic: Help me win a duel!  (Read 6059 times)

Offline toturi

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 734
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2012, 02:32:12 AM »
I think you're wrong. Partly because it creates the headache of who gets to invoke first, partly because the only actual restriction on invoking the same aspect repeatedly that I can find says:

I don't see why that should have any effect on other people's actions.
The person who can invoke it first does so.

And I am not sure what is the issue you are having with what you have quoted.
With your laws of magic, wizards would pretty much just be helpless carebears who can only do magic tricks. - BumblingBear

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12402
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2012, 02:34:03 AM »
What I've quoted says you can't invoke an aspect twice on a roll.

It doesn't say that an aspect can't be invoked twice on a roll.

You claim that the latter is the case, but so far as I can tell this is supported by nothing.

And who can invoke first? Whichever player shouts faster?

Offline toturi

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 734
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2012, 02:45:22 AM »
What I've quoted says you can't invoke an aspect twice on a roll.

It doesn't say that an aspect can't be invoked twice on a roll.

You claim that the latter is the case, but so far as I can tell this is supported by nothing.

And who can invoke first? Whichever player shouts faster?
Oh, I see. So while a player cannot invoke an Aspect twice, 2 different players may invoke the same Aspect twice for the same roll? Is this what you are saying?
Isn't the usual restrictions on Aspect invoking sufficient? You got to have the FP to spend and you got to know the Aspect is there. I suppose if both players have opposing agendas and it is a PvP situation and you have to adjudicate on who gets the invoke first, I'd go with the player whose character's turn it is or if it is neither, then the character with higher Alertness/initiative.
With your laws of magic, wizards would pretty much just be helpless carebears who can only do magic tricks. - BumblingBear

Offline UmbraLux

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1685
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2012, 03:12:51 AM »
I think you're wrong. Partly because it creates the headache of who gets to invoke first, partly because the only actual restriction on invoking the same aspect repeatedly that I can find says:

I don't see why that should have any effect on other people's actions.
Kinda agree with you but it doesn't really matter.  You can't invoke to subtract, only to add.  So you'll always be adding to a different roll.  Attacker invokes to add to Fists, Defender invokes to add to Athletics...two different rolls.  Rinse and repeat.

Edit:  Not really sure how you'd invoke a consequence to help in many cases anyway.  Seems an edge case at best.
--
“As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.”  - Albert Einstein

"Rudeness is a weak imitation of strength."  - Eric Hoffer

Offline RevengeofTim

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2012, 03:46:18 AM »
Yet more useful info!

As a note, he's a city face, so joy of joys he has the full consequence track, including extreme.

Can someone help me by coming up with the best 'opener' damage spell? Let's assume I win initiative, what do I throw that either puts him down, or places the fight firmly in my favour?

Offline Haru

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5520
  • Mentally unstable like a fox.
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2012, 04:54:15 AM »
Well, the crafting bonus is, as Sanctaphrax already said, going to be a problem. It is at least an 8 shift block, but I would calculate with a 10 shift block to be on the safe side.

To get him in 1 exchange, you will have to hit all his consequences (20] + his block (10) + physical stress track (3) +1 to make him fall over = 34 shifts of damage. If you go all out, you can get 14 of that by taking massive amounts of casting stress (2+2+4+6). 4 conviction gives us a 17 shift spell, which must be controlled by another 17 shifts on a discipline roll, and we are precisely at 34 shifts. Now lets take a worst case scenario of a -4 roll, which will get you down to +4 with foci and lawbreaker (this is calculated for water, since it is your best element). That would mean, you'd need at least 7 aspects to tag or fate points to invoke to kill him with one enormous blast of however you employ your water magic. Not taking into account, that he might be able to spend fate points of his own, in which case you will be absolutely screwed using this tactic.

The way I'd try to do it would be to shut him down first. Get some of his hair or other symbolic links. It will make it significantly easier to shut down his magic. Like I said before, with that many "ice" aspects, he is probably going to attack mainly (if not entirely) with ice attacks. If you lock down the entropy in the arena, he will no longer be able to shift around any heat, and since cold is the absence of heat, he will not be able to form any ice spells to throw against you. Even magic has to oblige physics at some point. After that, he can flail his arms, but he is pretty much dead in the water (pun intended).

If you have enough time before going into the duel, you could try to make a potion that will let you reflect his attacks. Since the item is specifically designed to reflect his spells at a specific location, you can get all kind of aspects to improve the potions power (dirt from the arena, hair from your opponent, a piece of something that has been hurt or destroyed by his magic, a snowflake for the element he uses, and so on). I use potion here as the catch-all word for one-use magic items, it can be a voodoo doll, a wristband, a carved stick, a scroll, pretty much anything. If you are able to sneak it in, better for you.

If you can go first, either stall and let him throw the first punch (to reflect his spell and then use your action to finish him), or use it to maneuver, just in case.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12402
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2012, 07:19:00 PM »
The block might only be six shifts...it's hard to tell.

But he might also have an armour item on underneath it.

Regardless, there's not much to this. Just crank the accuracy and the weapon rating as high as possible on your first attack, and try to inflict some taggable consequences.

Offline Lamech

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2012, 07:36:19 PM »

The way I'd try to do it would be to shut him down first. Get some of his hair or other symbolic links. It will make it significantly easier to shut down his magic. Like I said before, with that many "ice" aspects, he is probably going to attack mainly (if not entirely) with ice attacks. If you lock down the entropy in the arena, he will no longer be able to shift around any heat, and since cold is the absence of heat, he will not be able to form any ice spells to throw against you. Even magic has to oblige physics at some point. After that, he can flail his arms, but he is pretty much dead in the water (pun intended).
A distinct lack of thaumaturgy for our hero. If he had thaumaturgy this would be easier. A day before the duel all your friends contribute their minor consequence slots, make declarations, and cast a spell a nice tough buff spell on our hero. Then do something for a scene so those consequences can be recovered. Then repeat. Do this as many times as you can manage before boredom sets in. Also note, with a mass version of the lay on hands spell, moderate consequences can be contributed as well.

Of course, if he has a friendly wizard on his side, he should totally have him do that for him. The a modified spell version of the stimulant potion would be great; no tagging consequences for the enemy. Bunch of aspects to tag... maybe even take out the hero and grant him immunity to winter magic. (Although it would cost him 4 fate points)

Offline Silverblaze

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2012, 12:17:47 AM »
Who picked this fight? I'm curious.

Offline Becq

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1253
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2012, 12:39:12 AM »
Who picked this fight? I'm curious.
He Dresdened the fight:

Quote
the duel was solely because I kept infuriating him. Every time he said 'I see' I made it sound like he'd made a pun on 'icy' and made him sound like he was making awful puns. I love being compelled.

Offline Silverblaze

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2012, 04:09:01 AM »
So he picked the fight without officially picking it?

Sort of egged the other guy on until he wanted to throw down?

Offline Becq

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1253
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2012, 04:31:33 AM »
That was my take based on his post.  Which would make the Icy guy the aggrieved/challenger.

Offline Silverblaze

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2012, 04:06:21 PM »
Looking at the stats as given I would turned down the challenge.

Offline Becq

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1253
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2012, 08:08:00 PM »
Looking at the stats as given I would turned down the challenge.
I'm not entirely sure how turning down a 'legal' challenge is, under the Accords.  It might mean that the character in question no longer benefits from any of the Accord's (occasionally dubious) protections.

Offline RevengeofTim

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: Help me win a duel!
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2012, 08:19:36 PM »
Looking at the stats as given I would turned down the challenge.

Our GM would eat us alive for reacting to someone based on his stats in character.

ON THE GOOD NEWS: Barry Galida lost that duel hard.
I won initiative, but my first attacks targetting was so bad, I let it flop rather than wasting aspects and fate on it.
Then he hit me with a Weapon:6 zone attack. (a rote of his) But I managed to only take 4 stress.
The fight continued from there.
I took a lot of stress, a few consequences, but he got hit with 20+ shifts of damage for being overconfident.
Also, hilariously, he created 7 duplicates. 4 seemings out in the open, and 3 veiled seemings.
I took some stress opening the sight, then blew him away and broke the Armour:4 item of power armour he was wearing. Apparently unbreakable means unbreakable until you throw Weapon:10 entropy magic at it.

Oh and I forced an aspect change from 'Soul of Ice' (the armour name) to 'In my Soul, I Hate William Wescott'.
Not that this will backfire at all.
Oh and I provoked him into challenging me, so that I could pick the weapons. (Energy) rather than Skill, in which he would have had an IoP magic sword, IoP Armour:4 which improves seemings, and an IoP staff that deals mental stress. Except one of the Summer Knaves broke his sword earlier. And now I've broken his armour. So he's looking pretty angry right now.

Thank you very much for your help guys, I'm not sure it would have been possible without your vast wizardly intellects!
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 08:22:20 PM by RevengeofTim »