Author Topic: DFRPG In Other Time P... *AHEM!* Yadda-Yadda, Something About Claws and Stuff.  (Read 29714 times)

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7965
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #75 on: April 17, 2012, 07:33:16 PM »
Hehe...well, yes, perhaps it's time I changed it.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12403
    • View Profile
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #76 on: April 18, 2012, 07:40:47 AM »
@UmbraLux: My problem is not a dislike of logic, it's a dislike of attempts to treat everything as a logical argument. Sometimes people are just talking.

@Pbartender: That would be a really really weak power.

@Mr. Death: Yes, Sabertooth ends up behind in that situation. But if the compel is soft and he accepts it, he ends up ahead.

Dunno if I'd let people take extra elements. Honestly, the whole element system needs some work. Spirit does everything.

You are here to judge the game. Like it or not, every word you post in defence of this or that rule is a judgement. If you just want to play, go do that. Don't get involved in conversations about the quality of the rules if you have no interest in the quality of the rules.

Look, I'm not arguing that requiring Claws to be visible makes the game unplayable. Making games unplayable is really hard. I could give an arbitrary +3.24 to all Irish-potato-famine-related leadership rolls made by blue-haired characters without significantly affecting the game's playability. Doesn't make it any less stupid to do that.

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7965
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #77 on: April 18, 2012, 02:45:46 PM »
@Mr. Death: Yes, Sabertooth ends up behind in that situation. But if the compel is soft and he accepts it, he ends up ahead.
Yes, but to paraphrase the book, compels shouldn't be soft. If you're handing out a fate point, it should be for something that has bite to it.

Quote
You are here to judge the game. Like it or not, every word you post in defence of this or that rule is a judgement. If you just want to play, go do that. Don't get involved in conversations about the quality of the rules if you have no interest in the quality of the rules.
I'm here to discuss the game. To gain a better understanding of the rules. To find ways to make ideas that I have work within the rules. To find out if ideas I have are even possible within the rules. None of that requires "judging" the rules.

Quote
Look, I'm not arguing that requiring Claws to be visible makes the game unplayable.
You seem to be arguing that because Claws doesn't work for something its description was clearly not meant for, it should be changed.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline Pbartender

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 136
    • View Profile
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #78 on: April 18, 2012, 07:35:46 PM »
So, it turns out my players want a Sci-fi game, instead of a pirate game...  We're playing Starblazer Adventures, instead.

Offline Orladdin

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • The Undauntable
    • View Profile
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #79 on: April 18, 2012, 08:22:45 PM »
So, it turns out my players want a Sci-fi game, instead of a pirate game...  We're playing Starblazer Adventures, instead.

Haha, oh; cool.  I haven't tried it.  Stop in to the Billy's Game Den forum after you play a couple times and tell us what you/they think of it?
There is never a blanket answer to an ethical question.  This includes the Laws of Magic.

Perpetrator of The Cold Days Release FAQ

"I never make stupid mistakes. Only very, very clever ones."
-- The Doctor, Timewyrm: Genesys

Offline Richard_Chilton

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2400
    • View Profile
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #80 on: April 18, 2012, 08:31:07 PM »
Speaking about Billy's, there's some news there about a new Shadowrun project, one by the original creator.

Richard

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12403
    • View Profile
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #81 on: April 18, 2012, 09:05:29 PM »
Discussing the quality of the rules requires judging them. No getting around that.

My problem with Claws is partly its inapplicability to unusual concepts, but it goes deeper than that. I'm against these aesthetic requirements on principle. And I hate the idea that Human Form could be an advantage. And I despise powers that introduce balance landmines to the game.

Some compels will be hard, others will be soft. That's the game. If all compels were hard, nobody would ever self-compel.

PS: I like your sig, I think it's clever. Compels really do solve everything if you use them enough. But there are usually better solutions.

Offline Pbartender

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 136
    • View Profile
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #82 on: April 19, 2012, 01:14:33 PM »
Haha, oh; cool.  I haven't tried it.  Stop in to the Billy's Game Den forum after you play a couple times and tell us what you/they think of it?

As a house rule, though, we're allowing DFRPG powers (with DM permission) to emulate certain character types.  I've got a "Moreau" human-bear mutant character with Inhuman Strength and Claws, and a slightly psychic character with Inhuman Recovery and Incite Emotion (Fear).

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7965
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #83 on: April 19, 2012, 04:22:27 PM »
My problem with Claws is partly its inapplicability to unusual concepts, but it goes deeper than that. I'm against these aesthetic requirements on principle. And I hate the idea that Human Form could be an advantage. And I despise powers that introduce balance landmines to the game.
I don't see "balance landmines," personally. And Human Form is an advantage in some areas, but not in others--just like any of the powers. It might help concealment, but while the claws are concealed, you can't use them. Human Guise lets you hide them and use them at the same time. If Wolverine and character with Claws and Human Guise get into a fight in public and don't want to reveal their natures, Wolverine's at the disadvantage.

The intent of Claws is as a Creature Feature--a way to codify what effect the more monstrous of creatures in DFRPG would get from their natural weaponry. There are plenty of other ways to get that Weapon:2 rating for other characters, including the strength powers and stunts like Killer Blow and Lethal Weapon that, in my opinion, fit a supernatural martial artist much better than Claws.

Quote
Some compels will be hard, others will be soft. That's the game. If all compels were hard, nobody would ever self-compel.
I very much disagree. There are people out there who love the kind of drama a hard compel brings them. I've known a guy who gets the biggest kick out of throwing his characters through the wringer, up to and including maiming and death (albeit in a setting that allows for quicker healing and resurrection). His DF character has a wife and kick specifically so they can be used against him like that. Just as I believe whenever a player uses a fate point they should get something tangible out of it, if I'm giving them a fate point it should come with some kind of bite.

And I'd argue that I'm not discussing the quality of the rules--I'm simply saying they are what they are, and trying to abide by them.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 04:27:22 PM by Mr. Death »
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline eri

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #84 on: April 19, 2012, 04:59:30 PM »
Some compels will be hard, others will be soft. That's the game. If all compels were hard, nobody would ever self-compel.
I very much disagree. There are people out there who love the kind of drama a hard compel brings them.

Somehow I don't think you two have quite the same connotations for those words.   ;D
The more you put in your brain the more it will hold – if you have one.

Offline Orladdin

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • The Undauntable
    • View Profile
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #85 on: April 19, 2012, 08:39:41 PM »
I very much disagree. There are people out there who love the kind of drama a hard compel brings them.


Somehow I don't think you two have quite the same connotations for those words.   ;D

I just lolled at work.  Thanks.
There is never a blanket answer to an ethical question.  This includes the Laws of Magic.

Perpetrator of The Cold Days Release FAQ

"I never make stupid mistakes. Only very, very clever ones."
-- The Doctor, Timewyrm: Genesys

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7965
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #86 on: April 19, 2012, 09:27:53 PM »
I feel like an idiot, but I don't get the joke. :-\
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline eri

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #87 on: April 19, 2012, 10:15:26 PM »
No joke, at least I didn't intend one. I just thought it funny that you were kinda speaking around each other.
The more you put in your brain the more it will hold – if you have one.

Offline Orladdin

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • The Undauntable
    • View Profile
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #88 on: April 20, 2012, 01:26:38 PM »
No joke, at least I didn't intend one. I just thought it funny that you were kinda speaking around each other.

Ha, I thought it was a gutter reference with a touch of self-love.  It's even funnier if you didn't catch that when you put the two quotes together, Eri.
There is never a blanket answer to an ethical question.  This includes the Laws of Magic.

Perpetrator of The Cold Days Release FAQ

"I never make stupid mistakes. Only very, very clever ones."
-- The Doctor, Timewyrm: Genesys

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12403
    • View Profile
Re: DFRPG In Other Time Periods?
« Reply #89 on: April 21, 2012, 12:30:50 AM »
Your example is wrong, Mr. Death. Human Guise drops as soon as you use the powers.

How do you know what Claws was intended to be? You aren't telepathic.

Almost every power in the game is designed so that it can be used with a variety of narratives. This is good, you can see its positive effects when someone asks how to model something and has their problem solved with reflavoured canon powers.

A balance landmine is anything that can suddenly and accidentally make a character stronger or weaker when an unskilled player uses it. By treating narrative elements as important to power, you make it possible for someone to overpower or cripple their character by narrating them a certain way.

My definition of a hard compel is a compel where the drawbacks outweigh the benefits of accepting. One you want to refuse.