The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Black Council "Recruitment" [GS Spoilers]
Starshine:
--- Quote from: Drulinda on February 01, 2012, 12:18:50 AM ---Would not that first part mean that she should indeed not be underestimated :-\
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What I meant was it was more like he's saying - Be very careful - dont get careless or drop your guard kind of thing. At least that was the way I took it.
--- Quote ---No sadly Jim hasnt given us anyone else in the court to compare her to
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Im hoping we might see some more in Book 15.
--- Quote ---Mavra's been pretty quite about her power level. Remember how in BR Eb thought she just had a little skill with dark magic? she trained a small timer like Bianca to face off a wizard like Harry with some scary spells which probably refect on some of the stuff she knows but hasnt been seen doing.
Also Ferro is in the same league as Mab (maybe even a little stronger) so unless Cowl or Mavra pull of a power ritual theres no comparing either of them to someone like Ferro. Based on the power thats been demonstrated by the two, we cant really make a judgment one whos stronger at the moment.
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See, my impression based on what we've seen so far is Cowl is stronger than Mavra. His powers seem far vaster - he put up a much bigger fight the times we've seen him than Mavra did in the homeless shelter. Yes, she got away, but my impression of Cowl is he wouldnt have run that quickly. For instance, in WN, instead of retreating when Dresden was getting the upper hand, he called in the ghouls. But this is just my impression.
--- Quote ---Im not exactly sure what you mean in the last part, if Cowls BC and Mavra were an agent to stir up trouble then why does it make sense that the BC would send her to mess up his trip to Godhood? :-\
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Sorry I didnt explain that well - let me try again. I agree with the op who said they see the actual BC members as a small tight-knit group who tend to use agents to accomplish their aims. These agents probably know only what they need to and not the Big Picture - and may be total dupes [I have the feeling the Red King was egged on to prepare for war against the wizards but never really told the truth about the BC or their ultimate aims.].
The way I see Mavra [based on what Ive read so far] she is more another pawn/dupe/catspaw they can use as needed. I think they tell her as much or as little as they need to in order to get her to act the way they want her to act. IOW she is being manipulated by them. But that doesnt mean she is ALWAYS working for them, or has any idea of the big picture. She's not in their confidence to any great extent. And when they dont have a "job" for her, she's on her own.
I think in DB she was on her own and wanted the book for herself. My point was if she was BC herself, she would have realized Cowl was getting the book for them and wouldnt have risked involving Dresden.
But like I said - Im not entirely sure about Mavra. The only 2 I think are BC for sure are Cowl and Ferrofax.
Drulinda:
--- Quote from: Starshine on February 01, 2012, 01:46:29 AM ---What I meant was it was more like he's saying - Be very careful - dont get careless or drop your guard kind of thing. At least that was the way I took it.
Im hoping we might see some more in Book 15.
See, my impression based on what we've seen so far is Cowl is stronger than Mavra. His powers seem far vaster - he put up a much bigger fight the times we've seen him than Mavra did in the homeless shelter. Yes, she got away, but my impression of Cowl is he wouldnt have run that quickly. For instance, in WN, instead of retreating when Dresden was getting the upper hand, he called in the ghouls. But this is just my impression.
Sorry I didnt explain that well - let me explain try again. I agree with the op who said they see the actual BC members as a small tight-knit group who tend to use agents to accomplish their aims. These agents probably know only what they need to and not the Big Picture - and may be total dupes [I have the feeling the Red King was egged on to prepare for war against the wizards but never really told the truth about the BC or their ultimate aims.].
The way I see Mavra [based on what Ive read so far] she is more another pawn/dupe/catspaw they can use as needed. I think they tell her as much or as little as they need to in order to get her to act the way they want her to act. IOW she is being manipulated by them. But that doesnt mean she is ALWAYS working for them, or has any idea of the big picture. She's not in their confidence to any great extent. And when they dont have a "job" for her, she's on her own.
I think in DB she was on her own and wanted the book for herself. My point was if she was BC herself, she would have realized Cowl was getting the book for them and wouldnt have risked involving Dresden.
But like I said - Im not entirely sure about Mavra. The only 2 I think are BC for sure are Cowl and Ferrofax.
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ahh
For me it seems more likely given Mavras reputation that kincaid warning harry that Mavra was bad news was more then just a be careful time. i take this from account that kincaid himself reports to be afraid of Mavra and, that she was consisdered "very dangerous" by the white council before she was known the be wizard level and that she got away of killing a friend of ebs in the venatori these are all people and organizations who make killing monsters there bussiness and unlike Cowl whos human i get the impression that Blampires are still getting special attention as part of an ongoing genocide against their kind. Point being she must be doing something right to have earned her rep.
for Cowl, he has gotten more screen time to demonstrate his power which can definatly create an impression but unless its stated that he can do thing that mavra cant its not really proof of superior raw power or technique. keep in mind Mavras retreat was in daylight under magical lockdown as harry acknowledged in BR if Mavra herslf cought them at night she'd take them apart. Also if Mavra had just set that up so she could get Blackmail there would not have been any point in staying around. By contrast Cowl hadnt gotten what he wanted in all those times harry confronts him and hes in the way. Just saying, one thing alot of the powerful and smart seem to have incommon is that they generally dont seek a fight unless theres a reason.
While your theory on Mavras standing in the BC is as possible as any untill we get more clues I think Mavra would have had to know who was trying to get the book and wanted all of the necromancers laid low.
Just out of curiousity what makes you suspect Ferrorvax?
TheCuriousFan:
--- Quote ---Im hoping we might see some more in Book 15.
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Isn't that the next Denarian book?
Starshine:
--- Quote from: Drulinda on February 01, 2012, 05:50:59 AM ---
Just out of curiousity what makes you suspect Ferrorvax?
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It's just a feeling I have about him. Basically because he was at that party - which seemed to be some kind of watershed moment in BC planning [I dont think we know everything that happened in that party yet]. Also because he's a major power - certainly someone powerful enough to be considered BC material. And because he's extremely antagonistic to humans. Considers them something like vermin. Keeping him from assuming his rightful place in the universe. Whatever the ultimate goal of the BC [I think it's destroying the Gates and bringing the Outsiders back], it's not going to be beneficial for mankind.
cass:
--- Quote from: TheCuriousFan on February 01, 2012, 05:59:02 AM ---Isn't that the next Denarian book?
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If you go by the theory that Denariians show up/play a role in every fifth book (DM was book 5, SmF was book 10), then yes.
However, if you're going by the numbers, it's the next vampire-centric book, too: GP was book 3, BR was book 6, WN was book 9, Changes was book 12, so it follows that Book 15 is as likely to be vampire centric as Denariian-centric. Or both at once. Which is a rather unpleasant thought for Harry et al.
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