The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
KevinSig:
I still don't like to place Lashiel there, but if the shadow was her, it might also explain the resurgence of Lash. Maybe just having contact with Lashiel rebooted her. (Some think the headaches, in TC, were related, but because of the tarp over Little Chicago, I'm personally leaning towards the mental tampering myself.)
Also, while I didn't recall this, but only recently ran into it, apparently angels have Intellectus, per Harry's conversation in Turn Coat. And would explain why Harry was able to resist the temptation of a coin.
If Lashiel's shadow had access to Intellectus, she'd be more likely to know how to get to Harry. However, since Harry locked off the coin, the shadow (Lash) couldn't confer with her progenitor. Ergo, Harry only had to contend with the copy.
Not a copy that could get advice from the original.
Kevin
Mira:
I do not recall any whispering in Harry's head in Turn Coat. The last whisper Harry hears from Lash comes at the end of White Night, after supposedly Lash was dead.. That is when he dug up the coin and gave it to Father Forthill. The coin was rejected, end story, because if you go on that theory, Sanya should also still be under the influence etc, because he actually took up the coin and worked under the influence till he rejected it and became a Holy Knight. We have the WOJ that Harry changed Lasciel's shadow, she became Lash.. So she was no longer there to take over in Turn Coat, the shadow had been changed and the coin rejected.
I find it troubling that a shadow of the Fallen could turn up on Holy ground to begin with, I thought that was impossible. People like to point to Lasciel's shadow, but when she was there before it was in Harry's head, not independent. If the coin was close by in protected so no one could get to it, I think it is possible that Lasciel still could project herself, especially since Harry had been in contact with her before. Remember her shadow became Sheila and then took up residence in Harry's head while still buried and in the circle that Harry tried to shut her up in.
Now one has to ask the question, if that was indeed a projection of Lasciel whispering to Harry in Changes, why did she push for his suicide rather than try to get him to take up the coin? Harry was desperate enough to become Winter Knight, was he also desperate enough to trade his soul to save little Maggie? If so, why not offer? Or was Lasciel rejecting Harry now as a host, going instead for revenge because she was so soundly rejected.
TheCuriousFan:
--- Quote ---Or was Lasciel rejecting Harry now as a host, going instead for revenge because she was so soundly rejected.
--- End quote ---
Considering the "woman scorned" WoJ we have about her......
--- Quote ---I find it troubling that a shadow of the Fallen could turn up on Holy ground to begin with, I thought that was impossible.
--- End quote ---
Technically, it was Lasciel proper (assuming the Lasciel=whispering shadow theory is correct) whispering to Harry, and the Fallen can go into churches, they just don't like to according to Harry in Small Favour.
Paladino:
--- Quote from: Mira on December 12, 2011, 02:13:57 PM ---Now one has to ask the question, if that was indeed a projection of Lasciel whispering to Harry in Changes, why did she push for his suicide rather than try to get him to take up the coin? Harry was desperate enough to become Winter Knight, was he also desperate enough to trade his soul to save little Maggie? If so, why not offer? Or was Lasciel rejecting Harry now as a host, going instead for revenge because she was so soundly rejected.
--- End quote ---
I find it pretty simple actually Mira, Uriel says in GS that the creature knew enough of mankind to know exactly what kind of decision it would take. So Lasciel (Assumin she was the whispering shadow as I belive) would know that if Harry needed power he would go first for Mab. Since she was the lesser evil, and if you analize it the option with best probability of succes. She would heal him at the moment and could provide help instantly. While the Denarian were hardly all together somewhere in the world where Harry could call them instantly... And the Darkhallow, would take to long to make, plus since wouldn't be done on hallowen, without the spirit borders being weakned and without the erlking being summoned, would give much a smaller booster than it was mentioned in DB. So both Darkhallow and the Denarians would actually need time to pull it off, that if you analize, Harry did not have.
So Mab was the logical conclusion, and Lasciel knew Harry would go for her. Even if he bluffed Mab about the Denarians and the Darkhallow. So she knew that the best she could acomplish was get him to kill himself..
Vairelome:
--- Quote from: Mira on December 12, 2011, 02:13:57 PM ---I do not recall any whispering in Harry's head in Turn Coat.
--- End quote ---
This was from the first post in this thread, and it's part of Salacia's theory that the whispering shadow revealed in GS wasn't the first time Lasciel had whispered in Harry's head, it was just the time with the biggest effect.
--- Quote from: Salacia on September 13, 2011, 07:22:23 PM ---Harry and Bob are discussing what shagnasty did with Thomas during TC.
--- Quote ---“He’s alive,” I said quietly. “Or at least I’m going to proceed on that assumption.
Bob somehow managed to look baffled. “Why?”
Because you need your brother to be all right, whispered a quiet voice in my head. “Because anything else isn’t particularly useful in resolving this situation,” I said aloud.
--- End quote ---
And the voice causes Harry momentary despair.
--- End quote ---
The italicized bit is rather telling, I think. Salacia searched for similar phrasing, and only found that line in TC and a few specific lines in Changes, which would fit the timeline I suggested above. Re-read her post at the beginning of this thread; it's quite well done.
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