The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
Gman:
--- Quote from: Vairelome on December 10, 2011, 06:41:11 AM ---Yes, obviously. My point was different: we can also infer that Harry's warding of the coin was effective at keeping Lasciel from influencing him directly while the coin was buried in his basement. If Lasciel had been able to whisper in his ear whenever she wanted to during that period, I think it's not at all likely the Lash-personality would have been able to diverge at all. Since Lash clearly became something other than merely Lasciel's proxy, I think we should draw the conclusion that Lasciel was not supervising during this time.
Assuming that Lasciel was the whispering shadow, clearly something changed about Lasciel's containment that permitted her to reach out of the coin and whisper to Harry. We know that Harry dug up the coin and gave it to Father Forthill for safekeeping. It seems pretty likely that the containment failure occurred after that--my question is when, how, and who was responsible for un-blocking Lasciel's ability to communicate with Harry.
If the answer turns out to be that Nicodemus walked into St. Mary's and walked out with Lasciel's coin, and has had it for some time, I think that would be a pretty big deal, don't you?
--- End quote ---
Who said the coin was at St. Mary's? Would you want a really evil, dangerous and powerful coin being where lots of innocent people go to church and pray or would you put it in a hidden stronghold? Nick and company has family retainers that are mortal and serve him. A group of them could have found out where the coin is hidden and gotten it or hired a groups of mercenaries or monsters to get it. It is also possible the church containment of the coins is not so good and a guard was corrupted. It could be as simple as they see who is a guard. Capture that guard's loved ones and offer a trade. We don't know.
Ferd:
I find it interesting that everyone assumes that lash is gone. As far as I can tell all we have to base this on is HARRY'S thoughts that she is no longer there. Are there any outside confirming factors that she is no longer in his head and didn't use the "psychic bullet" as a ploy to retreat further into his mind and begin a second stage of temptation. For that matter, why are you assuming that there even WAS a convergence between Lash (the shadow) and Lasciel (the fallen)? There is probably a good reason that she is known as a temptress and subtlety is her strong suit.
My counter is this: Lash is a controlled construct of Lasciel that was implemented specifically to seem to come to the "good" side altering Dresdens ability to differentiate between "good" and "evil". Lash's "conversion" was a staged event specifically targeted to soften him up. Now going into the second phase of a premeditated plan of conversion, having already offered him the carrot of a "Nice" fallen angel, she is using the stick of guilt and self-doubt to goad him into acts that he might not go along with otherwise.
If you allow that Lasciel is one smart cookie, as was stated, then why is it not beyond her to manipulate him at a distance while at the same time giving him a false sense of triumph that he "beat" a fallen angel. This just serves to give her a stronger point of attack using surprise should she ever actually decide to lock him down as Nicodemus ordered her to, that option is still on the table imho, but it will wait until the time is right for Lasciel to benefit the most from it, not another fallen angel.
TheCuriousFan:
--- Quote --- everyone assumes that lash is gone.
--- End quote ---
We don't, we have WoJ she is still alive and appeared in Ghost Story.
--- Quote --- Lash's "conversion" was a staged event specifically targeted to soften him up.
--- End quote ---
We have WoJ Harry changed her.
Mercutio:
Lash, like Polka, will never die (unless Jim kills her :'()
I also don't think he would have been awarded Soulfire for getting suckered by a Fallens shadow.
KevinSig:
--- Quote from: Rasins on December 08, 2011, 04:22:37 PM ---For all we know Lasciel's coin may still be in St. Mary's. It may not have been that much of a distance for Lasciel to send out her shadow to Harry. We really don't know. Besides that, we know the denarians can have influence here on earth beyond their coin via WoJ.
--- End quote ---
Actually, we have WOJ, that the coin is *NOT* at St Mary's anymore...
--- Quote from: Jim Butcher ---“3.) Where are the coins kept? Does Father Forthill keep them at St. Mary’s or are they sent to the Vatican?”
Neither. :)
--- End quote ---
- Source
This, and the fact that I'd read a older WOJ quote that has Jim, actually stumbling over the distinction between Lash & Lashiel, I wasn't certain if the quote wasn't mangled (since I only hear 2nd hand vague indications). This thread was the first time I ran into the actual quote.
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