The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
Mira:
--- Quote ---To me, if Lasciel were really behind those voices, she would want to turn the knife in his belly for decades at least and really make those decades absolute torture for him for having the gall to think he could not only defy, but in a way defeat, one of the witnesses to Creation itself. Dresden is a wizard, and with their enhanced lifespans, she could stretch that torture out for centuries if she did it right. Nicodemus was hesitant to give Lasciel to Dresden, not only because she didn't always follow his lead, but because she was at least powerful enough to oppose him if she so chose. That would put her probably in the top 5 of the most powerful Fallen. With great power usually comes great ego, and for an affront to her like what Dresden did, the only viable solution for her would be a very long period of very awful torture. Not a few whispers of despair to convince him to kill himself a few short years of relative peace afterward. Actually, given that the words usually galvanized Harry into taking necessary actions, it almost seems like the work of Lash, taking on the role of that drill sergeant/high school football coach who likes to call people maggots and worthless and weak as motivation to prove him wrong.
--- End quote ---
I have to disagree, if that shadow was Lasciel goading Harry to suicide, while she didn't prolong his torture, she did twist the knife in the most painful way. Knowing Harry as she does, through Lash, and just knowing her subjects, she understands Harry's over active sense of thinking he is responsible for everything, his quickness to assume guilt where none exists, though he dances with the darkside his desire to avoid it.. There is nothing she could do to him that would cause greater pain than to say, "and it is all your fault.." Accomplish two things or maybe three depending on how you look at it. 1] Cause great pain and suffering for Harry, to the point where he wishes to end his life. I do not buy it was just to avoid becoming Mab's monster, but to punish himself for what went down. We have evidence of that in GS. 2] To rid the Denarians of a very powerful foe, revenge also may be a factor. 3] To deprive Heaven of a soldier in the up and coming battle.
ebliss1:
Depriving Heaven is a great motivation, but wouldn't it be better in the long run for her side to turn Dresden? The delicious pain from having him lose everything he holds dear, from constantly forcing him into having to choose between bad and worse, and of him having to watch helplessly as he slides further and further away from what make him Harry is a far better punishment. It'd be like Vader Syndrome, in reverse.
Magis:
No books in front of me to confirm this, but wasn't there a distinctly female guiding voice in Storm Front? Right outside the Lake House? I'm fairly certain. If so, this means there's been a voice hanging around since the very beginning, and there need be no connection to Lasciel at all.
--- Magis
Mira:
--- Quote from: ebliss1 on December 07, 2011, 02:01:20 PM ---Depriving Heaven is a great motivation, but wouldn't it be better in the long run for her side to turn Dresden? The delicious pain from having him lose everything he holds dear, from constantly forcing him into having to choose between bad and worse, and of him having to watch helplessly as he slides further and further away from what make him Harry is a far better punishment. It'd be like Vader Syndrome, in reverse.
--- End quote ---
Except she didn't succeed, Harry dug up the coin and had Father Forthill take it away. Harry resisted the shadow and rejected the coin successfully, we have the word of Uriel on that. That is why he was gifted with Soul Fire. There was a female voice sometimes in
Storm Front, Harry thought it was his mother.
KevinSig:
First off, let me give you my own opinion on who the shadow was. Lucifer, (or Lucy, if that's your preference).
Why? In Ghost Story, we learn that it wasn't a Fallen Angel exactly (per Jack). Lucy, in my mind fits this. In the same way that Alvin isn't exactly one of the Chipmunks. And yet, at the end of the book, Uriel states that what got Harry was once an angel.
I believe we have WOJ that Uriel has intellectus (trying to find the quote). So I'm willing to attribute it to Lucy as well. Which, in my thinking would go a long way to explaining how the entity, knew exactly what to say & when to say it, to Harry.
Harry would have thwarted Lucy, himself in Small Favor, so this would have certainly been a result of him thinking of the best time to strike at Harry.
Also, I'm willing to bet that it would take a major hellion, to lie to Harry within the confines of the church.
I acknowledge that there is a WOJ, that the Fallen can extend their influence beyond the coins, but it still doesn't feel right:
--- Quote ---What’s the range of influence for the Fallen in the coins? How far can they extend themselves away from their Denarian hosts?
Oh, their range is very, very limited, to this one little planet. :)
--- End quote ---
Not to say that I couldn't be wrong, but I don't like the idea of Lashiel, being able to get into Harry's head, with both a church & distance standing in her way. Plus, last we knew she was still in church hands & I also dislike the idea that both Lea & Lashiel were put in action at the same time.
So, I fall back on my own interpretation, that it was Lucy. I've seen nothing that makes it clear either way. And since I've seen some WOJs that confuse Lash & Lashiel, I'm not prepared to say that its impossible that Jim messed up in saying that Lash & Lashiel were both in Ghost Story, since the only time I've seen a quote on the matter, it wasn't entirely clear (to me) that he intended to mean both.
Kevin
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