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A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)

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the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:

--- Quote from: Paladino on September 13, 2011, 08:30:49 PM ---Sorry neuro, but in your view of Uriel you see no reason for him to do anything and everything according to some master plan he hides from everyone because in true hes not such a nice guy...

--- End quote ---

You don't treat Bob's reaction at the end of SmF - directly warning Harry that Uriel is not a nice guy - as relevant information, then ?

Paladino:
I see Bob's warning as that Uriel can be a very dangerous entity, and as a way to warn Harry that only because he's an archangel dosent mean he is all nice and sweet, that he can be harsh when he must/want to.

I take all we have seen from Uriel, is that as long as is inside his limitations, and it does not go against his/the WG plans and rules if he can help people he does.

The fun part of it, is that does not how much we try we could not understand him. I mean we could have a lot of information that points towards that he could be manipulating everyone in the series, but in his POV he's not, thats just the way he is.

You can take the GS passage when Harry demands from him to know how he friends were. And he says something like that
- Well, I belive that if we see from your perspective your right.
Not that he desagree from Harry, just that for who/what he is he never thougth on that possibility before. And the fact the he is willing to admit and act upon it, I belive shows part of his character.

Rogue_Nine:
Neuro and I aren't trying to imply Uriel is evil, but think of him as a far more powerful and slightly more benign version of John Travolta's character in Swordfish, especially as far as the "You could cure all the world's diseases, but the cost is killing an innocent child.  Could you kill that child?" question Travolta poses goes.  Uriel is concerned with the GREATEST good, not just the greater good.  Given that he exists on multiple levels of reality simultaneously, has intellectus, and has watched the rise and fall of literally all of humanity, there's absolutely no way we can truly understand his motives.  Think about what Uriel said about the Fallen that whispered in Harry's ear.  Something that Harry (and most of us, myself included) missed there: Uriel has that same advantage, as far as understanding humanity goes.

As I said before, Uriel is as close as Jim can come to acting personally within the series, which is the same thing as saying Uriel kind of is Jim.  Assuming that Uriel has entirely benign motives, or that he's acting with only Harry's best interests at heart is worst than silly, it's verging on willful foolishness.  While Mab would throw Harry away in a heartbeat if it was necessary to fulfilling her purposes as the Winter Queen, Uriel is far more dangerous.  He'd likely allow Harry to become the scary evil tardbeast Harry is so afraid of becoming, IF it served the greatest possible good to allow that to happen.  Simply put: Uriel has supported Harry in the past, and has helped him, yes.  BUT (in huge flashing neon letters, that does not by any stretch of the imagination make Uriel Harry's friend or ally.

the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:

--- Quote from: Rogue_Nine on September 15, 2011, 03:04:21 PM ---Neuro and I aren't trying to imply Uriel is evil

--- End quote ---

I think that does depend rather a lot on how you define evil.  I see it as entirely possible that Uriel's ultimate motives might not map well onto anything that could be described as good on the human scale.


--- Quote ---As I said before, Uriel is as close as Jim can come to acting personally within the series, which is the same thing as saying Uriel kind of is Jim. 

--- End quote ---

I'm disinclined to see this, fwiw, because i am a long way from believing Uriel is categorically more informed and capable than Odin or the Mothers.

Paladino:
Rogue, the nature of Uriel is a discussion I'm having for the third time with neuro I think.

So I can say I know how he neuro (sorry again) sees Uriel (and I'll boldly try to explain it):

We dont have enough information to know if Uriel is a good guy, and characters that we can "trust" like Bob (rarely wrong) and Mab (cant lie) have said he is dangerous. He has a goal that we have no idea at all and it's probally does not concede with Harry best interests. For all evidence we have he's not helping Harry, but manipulating him to achive his own goals.

Or something close to that, correct me if I'm wrong Neuro.

While, I belive that even if we dont have enough information, or ever will, to understand uriel motives, all the evidences we got of him so far shows a good character that will try to do the less damage possible to people in order to achive his goals/orders/master plan. And if it is inside his limitations there is a chance of helping the "good" guys he will. And I addmit he is "cold" enough to take some high risk tattics to achive his goals ( like sending harry out as a soul) thats why he is represented in the series as Heavens Spooky or Heavens Special Operation.

Ok, there are two really resumed descriptions...

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