Psionics in Dresden

[The Mighty Buzzard]

I agree with Umbra: the base power is a overpriced.  Adding Blades of Force to it might make it more worthwhile.

It can be done standing in running water, with thorn manacles on, gagged, circled, and inside a threshold you don't have an invitation to all at the same time.  Plus it doesn't cost you mental stress.  I'd say that's worth a point or three of refresh.

[UmbraLux]

...inside a threshold...

I suspect this would vary greatly from table to table.  To me, psionics are still supernatural and still subject to suppression by a threshold.

Edit:  Also, a wizard doesn't need to keep his hands free or be able to speak.  Those simply make casting easier.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

I suspect this would vary greatly from table to table.  To me, psionics are still supernatural and still subject to suppression by a threshold.

Edit:  Also, a wizard doesn't need to keep his hands free or be able to speak.  Those simply make casting easier.

Big AD&D background here, so I see psionics as more than PM but not affected by things that affect magic.

[Blackblade]

It can be done standing in running water, with thorn manacles on, gagged, circled, and inside a threshold you don't have an invitation to all at the same time.  Plus it doesn't cost you mental stress.  I'd say that's worth a point or three of refresh.

I would not allow psionics to work behind an unfriendly threshold or a circle.  Those both affect Incite Emotion abilities, so I see no reason why they shouldn't suppress psionics.  While gagging does limit magic, it does not make it impossible, merely painful.  Running water and thorn manacles I'll give you (though the manacles aren't exactly something you could find just lying around, and I'm sure that someone who wanted to block out psionics could rig up some sort of "delta-wave nullifier.") 

I'd also like to point out there is no evidence that breath weapons are negatively affected by either water or the manacles.  I'd say my point still stands.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

I would not allow psionics to work behind an unfriendly threshold or a circle.  Those both affect Incite Emotion abilities, so I see no reason why they shouldn't suppress psionics.

Human brain origin vs inhuman powers origin.  Mortal will is one of the core elements that will break a circle, so I'd say no way would a circle stop a non-magical expression of it.  Threshold, maybe, but it would be the only thing purely of mortal origin that they do stop if you were to rule it that way.

I mean if you want to declare that psionics are the result of something tinkering with humans back in the day and it counts as supernatural in origin, more power to you, but there's plenty of argument for it to be otherwise.

[Belial666]

I mean if you want to declare that psionics are the result of something tinkering with humans back in the day and it counts as supernatural in origin, more power to you, but there's plenty of argument for it to be otherwise.

The DF setting assumes that all powers are supernatural in origin even if they come from humans with no supernatural ancestry at all. I.e. Abby from the Order of the Big Cooking Pot had a form of Precognition. She didn't have any non-human ancestry and her ability was purely mental... but still supernatural.


Regarding psionics in other mediums, no matter how the settings handwave the explanation, psionic powers flat-out violate natural laws. Telekinesis violates the Action/Reaction principle, conservation of momentum and probably conservation of energy and the Laws of Motion. Any sort of perceptible energy projection from human biology violates conservation of energy, and several laws of electromagnetism and thermodynamics. Precognition violates cause-and-effect and relativity. Telempathy and Telepathy are the only ones that don't seem to violate any natural laws.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

The DF setting assumes that all powers are supernatural in origin even if they come from humans with no supernatural ancestry at all. I.e. Abby from the Order of the Big Cooking Pot had a form of Precognition. She didn't have any non-human ancestry and her ability was purely mental... but still supernatural.

That's a bit of a stretch for seeing one instance of a power that shows up far more often in magical themed settings than psionically themed ones.  You may very well be right by Jim's thinking but we've nothing even close to definitive that her power was psionic in nature or that it was inhibited by thresholds/circles/etc...

Regarding psionics in other mediums, no matter how the settings handwave the explanation, psionic powers flat-out violate natural laws. Telekinesis violates the Action/Reaction principle, conservation of momentum and probably conservation of energy and the Laws of Motion. Any sort of perceptible energy projection from human biology violates conservation of energy, and several laws of electromagnetism and thermodynamics. Precognition violates cause-and-effect and relativity. Telempathy and Telepathy are the only ones that don't seem to violate any natural laws.

Non-newtonian fluids like Silly Putty appear to at first as well.  Then you find out why they do what they do, write that into the natural laws, and Bob's your uncle.  I mean for that matter, gravity violates natural laws since we can't explain at all why it does what it does.

[Blackblade]

If Psionics can ignore circles/thresholds in your game, then I would say that it is fair at the price Sancta gave it; however, if they have the same restrictions other supernatural powers have, then it is underpriced.

[Sanctaphrax]

You mean overpriced, right?

Anyway, the rules for thresholds are super vague. It seems that a given power could either be suppressed or unaffected depending on the character who has it. A bear with Inhuman Strength would be fine, but a WCV would lose their powers.

As for the comparison to Channeling:

Rolling to control is definitely a downside. A bad roll for TK is just a low chance to hit. A bad roll for Channeling is that and some kind of pain/collateral damage. Duration is mixed, since aspects created with TK are not limited in duration but blocks created with Channeling can be extended. Also, TK is much better for utility work. You can't carry around a sofa with Channeling. Even with enough control to not just be throwing it repeatedly, you'd run out of stress pretty soon.

As for the comparison to Breath Weapon:

Even without Blades, TK is probably better. It has the following advantages:

-Aimed with a noncombat skill.
-May be used to block and grapple.
-Also gives complete substitution of a skill.

Breath Weapon has only the following advantage:

-In situations where there is nothing rated weapon 2 or greater within a zone, it has a better weapon rating. These situations are extremely rare, though.

I really think that people overlook the noncombat aspects of this power. With a single -1 upgrade, it totally eliminates the need for three whole skills! Fists, Weapons, and Might simply don't matter anymore.

Though I am considering adding the first range upgrade to the base power. One zone feels kinda short ranged. Would that make people look upon this more favourably?

Man, I'm rambling like an old man. I hope that post made sense.

PS: Please do not use reflexive blocks as a balance point. They're an optional rule of questionable balance. Although they do have the effect of making wizards burn out even faster.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

I don't think range really needs an upgrade.  Feels pretty good at 1 zone for the default.

Blocks, they could use maybe a point of mental stress if they're overcome to represent feedback.  Same with failing a Conviction roll on Mind Over Matter.

Strength powers should be required to be taken after TK if you want them to apply mentally rather than physically.  Unification is fine how it is but might need a bump to -2, I'd have to see it in play a while to decide.