The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Origins of the Three Eye drug. (Changes spoiler)
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: logistics on July 08, 2011, 07:42:00 PM ---I have to second this. If the White Council version of a nuke strike was able to be pulled off easily, surely the strategic situation in Dead Beat would have merited such a response - Peabody's manipulations could only go so far.
--- End quote ---
They don't need to. The strike in DB takes place by the Reds trespassing on Faerie. Faerie will handle that, and do in PG - hard enough that whatever advantage the Reds (who lost all their war-later faction at the end of DM, and appear now to be entirely run by hardline hawks) had at the end of DB, PG reduces it to the point where the hard-line hawks come looking for a ceasefire.
--- Quote --- Incidentally, the strike called up in Changes never materialized due to the Reds interference. Dresden managed to turn their own weapon upon them, but it still doesn't signify the White Council having the practical ability to do such a strike, even if they have the skill to do so. They tried and got slapped down before it ever occurred.
--- End quote ---
I disagree entirely.
The Council totally took out the Reds in Changes. They did it by a combination of sending in a bunch of their best people dressed in grey, and denying Harry overt help so that he would turn to Mab for power, which she wants to give him and not any of the rest of them. I don't for an instant believe that either Chandler's letter or Eb's report of illness among the Council are proven true; they work for me as motivations for Harry.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: biggs on July 08, 2011, 07:35:10 PM ---It was Arthur Langtry, remember? His policy was to stop the RC with wards, which his were very powerful. If you remember the various battle references, when the WC takes an offensive campaign, the RC get their balls caved in (paraphrasing Harry) by the WC. The reason they kept losing was because the Merlin was a pompous coward, politically speaking.
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For values of "pompous coward" equal to "not actually wanting to commit genocide".
He doesn't even have to have humanitarian* reasons for doing so. It seems entirely possible to me that we will discover in the next couple of books that the consequences of the annihilation of the Red Court are much much worse than the consequences of their existence.
kazimmoinuddin:
the thing is humans may be cattle, for them to survive, alot of us needed to live, any one wanting to wipe out humanuty, will have an easier time.
pobabylon:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 09, 2011, 02:14:33 AM ---The Council totally took out the Reds in Changes. They did it by a combination of sending in a bunch of their best people dressed in grey, and denying Harry overt help so that he would turn to Mab for power, which she wants to give him and not any of the rest of them. I don't for an instant believe that either Chandler's letter or Eb's report of illness among the Council are proven true; they work for me as motivations for Harry.
--- End quote ---
that's .. interesting, I don't think the WC to be incompetent, but i wouldn't have thought to give them that much credit. How many people could really have known that Mab was on such good terms with harry, and had been pushing for him to become her Knight? I think there are still too many doubters in Harry on the council for that idea to have made it past "Those powers will finally turn him evil. not going to put our hopes of the RC's destruction in those hands"
you think the grey council is just a puppet organization for the WC do get things done? (sorta like.. abunch of blackstaffs?) I thought that alot of the Grey council members weren't even on the WC..
and biggs, you have a good point, i forgot that was the merlin's strong suit. but still, I think if the council could have so easily annihilated the entire red court so completely as at the end of changes, at literally any time they had wanted, they wouldn't have weathered an entire war with the RC before leaving if up to Harry to stumble his way into doing the task. Whether the WC was going to win the war or not, no one can say there weren't heavy losses among the wizards, and those losses would have continued to pile up.
Any way it's looked at, I'm excited to see the waves caused from the sudden absence of the entire RC, that certainly is a worldwide Change.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: pobabylon on July 09, 2011, 05:20:00 AM ---that's .. interesting, I don't think the WC to be incompetent, but i wouldn't have thought to give them that much credit. How many people could really have known that Mab was on such good terms with harry, and had been pushing for him to become her Knight?
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Plausibly ? Ancient Mai, who seems to handle supernatural diplomacy for the Council generally, and who had an envoy visiting Mab in SK. Rashid with his spooky foreknowledge. Any other wizard with a working knowledge of Faerie.
--- Quote --- I think there are still too many doubters in Harry on the council for that idea to have made it past "Those powers will finally turn him evil. not going to put our hopes of the RC's destruction in those hands"
--- End quote ---
I was not proposing they had much invested in Harry surviving the operation. Besides, I think Harry under Mab's control might well strike some of those people as a less dangerous wild card than Harry as he was pre-Changes.
--- Quote ---you think the grey council is just a puppet organization for the WC do get things done?
--- End quote ---
Yep.
Pretty much the first thing we're told about Arthur Langtry is that he plots on multiple levels. The official denial that there is a Black Council and the existence of the Grey Council read to me as two halves of the same plan.
--- Quote --- (sorta like.. abunch of blackstaffs?)
--- End quote ---
I'm not proposing that any of them other than Eb have sanction to ignore the Laws. Just that they are set up to carry out the operation without it being visibly a White Council operation.
--- Quote --- I thought that a lot of the Grey council members weren't even on the WC..
--- End quote ---
Only direct evidence we have for that is Odin showing up with them at the end, and I am not at all sure that just because he shows up to help he could be counted on as a member.
--- Quote --- but still, I think if the council could have so easily annihilated the entire red court so completely as at the end of changes, at literally any time they had wanted, they wouldn't have weathered an entire war with the RC before leaving if up to Harry to stumble his way into doing the task.
--- End quote ---
He doesn't stumble. He's steered every step of the way. There are very few chapters in Changes where Harry is not being managed by some combination of a) the Merlin b) Eb c) Mab or Lea d) Uriel/the White God e) Odin. It's not a complicated set of chances left to run, it's an operation micromanaged every step of the way.
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