Author Topic: Noob GM: NPC Consequences  (Read 1686 times)

Offline Aubri

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Noob GM: NPC Consequences
« on: May 06, 2011, 06:11:40 PM »
I get the impression that certain kinds of NPCs should be able to take consequences, and others can't. Is there any hard and fast rule/suggestion on this? If not, is there a decent rule of thumb?

Offline devonapple

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Re: Noob GM: NPC Consequences
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2011, 06:20:12 PM »
I get the impression that certain kinds of NPCs should be able to take consequences, and others can't. Is there any hard and fast rule/suggestion on this? If not, is there a decent rule of thumb?

The book seems to suggest that:
Mooks should take no Consequences;
Named NPCs can take some Consequences (it's not clear where to draw the line);
Major NPCs/Villains etc. can take any Consequences that PCs can take.

One thing we had to keep in mind is that when Monsters/Mooks have Recovery Powers which allow them to shrug off certain Consequences (or extra Mild Consequences from high Endurance/Conviction/Presence), using those abilities is still justified. So if a faceless Monster has the power to shrug off a Mild or Moderate consequence in a conflict, let them, but don't have them take any additional Consequences unless they become important to the narrative.
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
That echoes on like it’s carpet-bombing feverish white jungles of thought
That I’m positive are not even mine"

Blackout, The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets

Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Noob GM: NPC Consequences
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2011, 06:20:58 PM »
It really depends on your campaign and your enemies.

If your pcs don't fight very often, you should probably have the bad guys take consequences.

If your pcs fight often, but fight powerful enemies = consequences.

If your pcs are powerful, but dealing with low level mooks (like cops), no consequences.

Big bads /always/ have consequences.

What I like to do is mix it up and keep my PCs guessing.  If a PC knows, "oh, this guy dies right away, let's half ass my attack", it really lowers the tension of the campaign.
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline Wolfwood2

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Re: Noob GM: NPC Consequences
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2011, 06:30:33 PM »
I get the impression that certain kinds of NPCs should be able to take consequences, and others can't. Is there any hard and fast rule/suggestion on this? If not, is there a decent rule of thumb?

A good rule of thumb is, "Is this NPC ever going to show up again?"  If they are in this scene and then they're pretty much done no matter what, then they shouldn't take any consequences.  If they might stick around for a follow-up scene, they should take a mild consequence.  (Also if they have a recovery power that lets them shrug off minor consequences, or if just if you're not quite ready for them to go down yet.)

If they might show up next session, they should take up to moderate consequences.

If you could see them showing up through this story-arc, they should take up to severe consequences.

If they are a major reoccuring NPC (or have the potential to become one) you might go all the way to Extreme Consequences, preferably taken as part of a Concession where they flee, cursing the PCs' names forever.

Offline InFerrumVeritas

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Re: Noob GM: NPC Consequences
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2011, 06:42:59 PM »
Here's how I see it:

Mooks aren't going to take consequences.  They will flee if they do.  They're really not in the fight for the long run and don't have personal interest in it (just following orders and such).  Taken out, if it doesn't involve death, often involves fleeing and they concede a lot.

Named NPCs will take mild consequences, but if they take a moderate consequence they'll try to concede if they can.  If they can't, I try to gage how important they are as a recurring element.  If it's not very much, they'll likely be taken out by things that would force moderate consequences or more.

Major NPCs and Villains are going to fight like the PCs.  They'll take all the consequences they can but will likely consider concession (if it's something that they'd do) if severe consequences seem to be an option or happen. 

I don't typically see extreme consequences as options for NPCs, except major villains and only if it will benefit the story in a significant way.

Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Noob GM: NPC Consequences
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 06:56:57 PM »


Major NPCs and Villains are going to fight like the PCs.  They'll take all the consequences they can but will likely consider concession (if it's something that they'd do) if severe consequences seem to be an option or happen. 

I don't typically see extreme consequences as options for NPCs, except major villains and only if it will benefit the story in a significant way.

I'd love for a reoccurring villain to take an extreme consequence losing an eye, and then become obsessed with revenge.  I'd call the aspect, "An eye for an eye."
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline Aubri

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Re: Noob GM: NPC Consequences
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 07:10:34 PM »
Got it. Thanks a lot! My one-off named-servant-of-the-big-bad will have one mild consequence slot.

Offline Richard_Chilton

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Re: Noob GM: NPC Consequences
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2011, 07:11:16 PM »
When it comes to the narrative flow of the game there's not really hard and fast rules.  Sometimes it depends on what the NPC is risking.  A random NPC who isn't going lose much getting taken out isn't going to give it his all.  That, and if this conflict isn't important to the story then why waste time on it?

Let's say it's a social conflict with a bouncer to learn if someone has entered the bar.  Why would the bouncer take a consequence over something like that? Just do a resources maneuver to place the aspect "There's money in it for you" and take him out socially - probably in one exchange.

Now if it really mattered to him - say he was the target's brother or had been developed with the high concept of "Tough Ass Bouncer" or something like that, then things would be different.  Of course then he wouldn't be a random NPC - he'd be a step above a mook and take consequence to keep that information to himself.  Call it two or three exchanges.

If he's secretly the Darkness Given Form, or a Seelie knight impersonating the bouncer, or otherwise plays an important role in the game, then he should be resisting the contest as well as any PC could.

Amber Diceless Role Playing had a guide for how to handle conflicts - unimportant ones get brushed over while the important ones get as much focus as you can give them.  That game cited the amber novels.  There's a place where there is four or five pages of thrust, counter thrust, riposte, feint, some footwork, some verbal fake out, etc that was two almost equally matched main characters dueling.  That fight was important so it was the focus of the narrative for quite a while.  Then there's battle scenes where:
"Three more men plummeted past me and we came to a small landing and a turn. He cleared the landing and began the ascent. For half an hour I watched him, and they died and they died. "
Yes, that a great warrior killing 50 or 100 guys in a couple of sentences as he fights his way up a single file stairway that's carved into a cliff.  None of those guys were important to the plot so they just died - simple as that.  They got lucky here and there and slowed the guy down a bit - and once there was a chance the great warrior might fall things were broken down a bit more, but walking half a mile up a cliff stair, killing a man on each step? Call it a page to a page and half.

In Dresden it's the same way.  If the character or struggle is important to the plot then fight it  out, otherwise fill the mook's stress chart and go on to the next one.

Hope this helps.

Richard
PS: I'm going to have to start typing faster and was I thinking about deleting this post when he saw the advice above saying the same thing - but added this footnote instead.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 07:13:11 PM by Richard_Chilton »

Offline WillH

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Re: Noob GM: NPC Consequences
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2011, 07:49:17 PM »
More than anything, consequences are a tool for pacing the scene. That should be the primary factor when deciding whether or not to take a consequence.