little power but high control tasks

[noretoc]

From the books there are a alot of instances where harry will not use magic to do things, because his control is not great enough.  As far as I see the rules really don't support this.  The discipline roll is only important when you are using more power that you can aesily handle. 

What about a situation where you only need a little power, say enough to lift a chair, but you then want to move the chair through say an obstacle course.  If would seem this type of spell should have a low power requirement, but a high discipline roll needed. as far as I see, there is not current wy to simulate this? Thoughts?

[Tedronai]

the most easily exemplified situation within the rules for this type of situation would be something with a very small stress track (or already mostly filled stress track), and a full allotment of inapplicable, let's go with social, consequences in a physical/magical confrontation, but very high defense skills

You don't need much magical power to take them down, but you'll need a good control roll just to hit them at all

[sinker]

Yeah, the current system does have the Discipline roll doing double duty, so there's no reason why this can't be represented in the system. To use your example if one rolls over the amount of power required to pick up the chair, but under the number to "target" the chair properly then one has succeeded at picking up and moving the chair, but failed at guiding it through the obstacle course.

[Seb Wiers]

From the books there are a alot of instances where harry will not use magic to do things, because his control is not great enough.  As far as I see the rules really don't support this.  The discipline roll is only important when you are using more power that you can easily handle.

The novels may do this to further the plot; having Harry use magic to solve everything would be rather dull.  In game mechanics terms, that would be a compel on some aspect Harry has, earning Harry a fate point.  This might be a self compel (say of "Not so Subtle, Quick to Anger"), reflecting the fact that Harry over-estimates the trouble he would have contolling his power, or actually has an abnormally hard time controlling it.
Actually, it seems like a pretty good idea to give a low-refresh character an aspect they can self-compel this way- something that lets them earn fate points for complicating the plot by NOT using their powers, whatever the reason.  Good for the story, can help make some extra screen time for the mortals when things would otherwise go the supernatural route, and a good way to stock up fate points.

[TheMouse]

The novels may do this to further the plot; having Harry use magic to solve everything would be rather dull.  In game mechanics terms, that would be a compel on some aspect Harry has, earning Harry a fate point.  This might be a self compel (say of "Not so Subtle, Quick to Anger"), reflecting the fact that Harry over-estimates the trouble he would have contolling his power, or actually has an abnormally hard time controlling it.

This is my read as well.

[noretoc]

So going by this, that means that lifting a chair and moving it aroudn through an obstacle course would require the same roll.  Lets say that 2 shift were strong enough to lifth the chair, then a discipline roll of 2 would allow you to have complete control over it and move it anywhere you want, no matter how complex?

It is just a personal issue harry has, that he can't manage to do it?

[devonapple]

So going by this, that means that lifting a chair and moving it aroudn through an obstacle course would require the same roll.  Lets say that 2 shift were strong enough to lifth the chair, then a discipline roll of 2 would allow you to have complete control over it and move it anywhere you want, no matter how complex?

It is just a personal issue harry has, that he can't manage to do it?

For example: Say the challenge to lift the chair and move it from point A to point B is a Discipline result of 2, but after factoring in the actual obstacle course, it may actually be a challenge of 4 shifts. So rolling a 2 or 3 means the chair got moved, but not with any finesse. 4 would mean it was successfully maneuvered around the obstacles, while higher rolls would be more impressive.

[Warpmind]

So going by this, that means that lifting a chair and moving it aroudn through an obstacle course would require the same roll.  Lets say that 2 shift were strong enough to lifth the chair, then a discipline roll of 2 would allow you to have complete control over it and move it anywhere you want, no matter how complex?

It is just a personal issue harry has, that he can't manage to do it?

Actually, I'd say the rules do have something to say in this matter. I'd call that a Maneuver, for purpose of Evocation categories. Assuming it would take 2 shifts of power to lift a chair, yes, that's easy enough to control. However, the additional cost of 1 shift per extra exchange (or, for fluff's sake, let's call it direction change) WILL make this more awkward. If you move this chair through an obstacle course in just a single exchange, I'd argue that either the chair or the obstacl course are largely inappropriate for their intended use afterward... Maybe both, even.
Also, look at "Prolonging Spells" for how to make sure you have the spell going long enough to get it through said course. It IS stressful, and takes time, but it's quite feasible. The more complex the task, the more power you need to put into the spell, even if most of that power is only a constant trickle to keep the effect going...

[devonapple]

Quick bursts are easy. The sustained effort is the challenge. And if a GM is putting together an obstacle course, there are a variety of strategies to test the latter. Splitting up the extended challenge over several exchanges. Requiring a minimum number of successful shifts each exchange.

[nearchus]

What about a situation where you only need a little power, say enough to lift a chair, but you then want to move the chair through say an obstacle course.  If would seem this type of spell should have a low power requirement, but a high discipline roll needed. as far as I see, there is not current wy to simulate this? Thoughts?

I'd suggest reading Harry's comment in YS that discusses "move" actions with respect to Evocations. While it's possible to move a chair through an obstacle course, I'd guess there won't be much left of that chair by the end.

[Tedronai]

That's more a product of how Harry thinks than it is a principle of magic, itself.
Take, for example, the Giant Hand spell Harry himself managed to pull off during the Aquarium Incident (admittedly, with a 'nudge of his elbow' from ...

(click to show/hide)

Uriel, was it?

)

[noretoc]

Actually, I'd say the rules do have something to say in this matter. I'd call that a Maneuver, for purpose of Evocation categories. Assuming it would take 2 shifts of power to lift a chair, yes, that's easy enough to control. However, the additional cost of 1 shift per extra exchange (or, for fluff's sake, let's call it direction change) WILL make this more awkward. If you move this chair through an obstacle course in just a single exchange, I'd argue that either the chair or the obstacl course are largely inappropriate for their intended use afterward... Maybe both, even.
Also, look at "Prolonging Spells" for how to make sure you have the spell going long enough to get it through said course. It IS stressful, and takes time, but it's quite feasible. The more complex the task, the more power you need to put into the spell, even if most of that power is only a constant trickle to keep the effect going...

A couple of hints with this. Maneuvers place aspects. They don't actually do anything real. Also if you haveto increase the power to do somelike like this it makes the concept of a wizard who is not very strong in the power but with a lot of control not doable. It seems that discipline is limited by conviction except in one specific case. Attacks. Then you can use the extra shifts you get on a roll. I just don't think it should be like that. There should be something good about having a high discipline low conviction. You may not be a powerhouse but you should be able to have some type of advantage.

[noretoc]

For example: Say the challenge to lift the chair and move it from point A to point B is a Discipline result of 2, but after factoring in the actual obstacle course, it may actually be a challenge of 4 shifts. So rolling a 2 or 3 means the chair got moved, but not with any finesse. 4 would mean it was successfully maneuvered around the obstacles, while higher rolls would be more impressive.

I agree this is how it should work.

[Warpmind]

A couple of hints with this. Maneuvers place aspects. They don't actually do anything real. Also if you haveto increase the power to do somelike like this it makes the concept of a wizard who is not very strong in the power but with a lot of control not doable. It seems that discipline is limited by conviction except in one specific case. Attacks. Then you can use the extra shifts you get on a roll. I just don't think it should be like that. There should be something good about having a high discipline low conviction. You may not be a powerhouse but you should be able to have some type of advantage.

Oh, yeah... D'oh.